re: Has Israel ever started a round of hostilities?

quote:

---

Well at the very least can we get even the pro-Palestine people to admit that THEY started this and that THEY started the rocket attacks 6 months ago?

Or do they revert to the double speak of "Israel oppressing and violating blah blah blah".

---

it's not doublespeak when true. Living under a military dictatorship, the Arabs have a right to kill their oppressors. This is a universal right which cannot be questioned.

a Palestinian bus driver, 32, was found hanged in the Jerusalem bus depot. Israel rules this a suicide, the Palestinian doctor disagreed but his viewpoints were not widely distributed by Isreal (the Israeli spokesman implied he was lying). Family believes he was murdered by Jewish civilian extremists (settlers)

LINK

Jerusalem (AFP) - A Palestinian bus driver was found hanged in his vehicle in Jerusalem, sparking clashes, after what Israel said was an apparent suicide but a colleague said looked like murder.

Related Stories

Palestinian Bus Driver Found Dead in Jerusalem The Wall Street Journal
Jerusalem on edge after car attack as extremists plan march AFP
Despair fuels violence in riot-hit east Jerusalem AFP
Deadly Jerusalem synagogue attack horrifies Israel AFP
Clashes rock flashpoint Jerusalem mosque compound AFP
The incident happened late on Sunday, with a supervisor finding the man's body at a bus depot in Har Hotzvim, an industrial zone in Jewish west Jerusalem, police said in a statement.

Family members identified the victim as Yusuf Hasan al-Ramuni, from Al-Tur on the Mount of Olives in annexed east Jerusalem. They ruled out suicide by the 32-year-old father of two.

But results from an autopsy carried out on the body Monday with the family's consent found no evidence of foul play in his death, police said.

"No suspicion of criminal activity was found," said police spokeswoman Luba Samri in a statement after a post-mortem was carried out at Abu Kabir forensic institute near Tel Aviv.

quote:

---

Kind of proves my point. Unless you read Drudge or watch Fox News you haven't heard of what happened. It's bull shite.

---

I'm really not clear whether you're going for debate here or trolling, but just in case it's the former: when one makes a blanket statement such as "Israel never instigates hostilities" it's fairly important to define, objectively, what constitutes "hostilities." (Also what constitutes "Israel," but you don't seem to be going for "what's a Palestinian hurdurhur" so we'll put a pin in that.)

And the reason I'm asking for your definition before engaging you on specifics is because I've learned from experience that engaging partisans on specifics tends to lead to the following exchange:

Q1: "You say the Palestinians did (X), but suppose I were to say the Israelis instigated it with (Y)?"

A1: "(Y) doesn't count as hostilities because [custom-fit defintion]"
OR
A2: "(Y) was in turn instigated by (Z)" at which point we might regress A2 a few times until:

Q2: "But what about (Z)', where Israelis committed an act almost identical to (Z)?"

A3: "That's different, it doesn't count as hostilities when the Israelis do it because [custom-fit defintion]"

Asking for definitions doesn't prevent this sort of post-hoc rationalization for partisans, but it makes it more blatant to the few people who are reading the debate with an open mind.

quote:

---

Well at the very least can we get even the pro-Palestine people to admit that THEY started this and that THEY started the rocket attacks 6 months ago?

---

Your use of the word "they" seems to imply that this act was ordered by some Palestinian government entity (P.A., Hamas, etc.), rather than individuals acting alone. Do you think all Palestinians should be punished collectively for the actions of a few?

quote:

---

That's not a military dictatorship, that's an occupation, and you comparing it to Apartheid is incredibly disrespectful.

---

quote:

---

Apartheid was a system of racial segregation in South Africa enforced through legislation by the National Party governments, the ruling party from 1948 to 1994, under which the rights, associations, and movements of the majority black inhabitants were curtailed and Afrikaner minority rule was maintained.

---

quote:

---

By extension, the term is nowadays currently used for forms of systematic segregation, established by the state authority in a country, against the social and civil rights of a certain group of citizens, due to ethnic prejudices.

---

Please, TN Bhoy, educate us.

The solution is a secular state where all Arabs and Jews are citizens with full voting and civil rights. Nothing less than that will make peace in Israel/Palestine or whatever you call it.

Jews have no special right to the place that supersedes the rights of Arabs both Christian and Muslim.

quote:

---

The solution is a secular state where all Arabs and Jews are citizens with full voting and civil rights. Nothing less than that will make peace in Israel/Palestine or whatever you call it.

---

I agree. This will happen eventually. The economic inroads have already begun.

Ironically the Christian evangelists will deny the "Palestinians" have these "rights" while simultaneously condemning Americas history of discrimination. Derp.

quote:

---

they are the absolute scum of the earth and should be nuked into oblivion with nary a thought of their existence ever again

---

religion of peace

I was introduced to them on 4chan years ago, I don't go to reddit. No idea how popular things are in that shithole.