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Message
The Source of So Many Frustrations
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:48 pm
My hypothesis: ever since the ’08 int fest Les has intentionally played it (ultra?)-conservative on O. Hence, any young QB in our system will play tentatively or O will play handicapped. I think the stats corroborate this.
Year, YPG, Rank (YPG)
2000 53 376
2001 11 451
2002 86 350
2003 31 418
2004 38 396
2005 60 374
2006 11 417
2007 26 439
2008 55 368
2009 112 305
2010 86 343
2011 86 355
2012 87 374
2013 36 453
As a result, we lose games we could otherwise win and miss out on championships.
(Analogy from Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom for you ol’ timers): so while Les sends Chief into the pit to deal with the exotic animals of offense, he’ll keep our O back at a safe distance.
The hyper-defenders of Les will quickly migrate to last year. Mett had a good year. Our O was refreshingly functional. And still pretty simple in design. It could afford to be. We had a QB who could make any throw on the field, two great WR’s (BTW, did you see how OBJ abused Richard Sherman?) and a full-grown man at RB. But at the end of it all we were 3rd in the SECW in passing, 5th in the SECW in total O, a 3-loss SEC team, and 5 weeks late and 500 miles south of Atlanta.
2013 SECW passing stats (ypg)
A&M 353.3
OM 283.3
LSU 251.0
Bama 248.5
State 244.5
Auburn 173.0
Arky 148.5
2013 SECW total offense (ypg)
A&M 538.4
Auburn 501.3
OM 473.3
Bama 454.1
LSU 453.3
State 434.4
Arky 357.2
IMO, we don’t need a new HC. We don’t. Les does so much so very well. What we need is for Les to get over the ghosts of ’08 and take a more aggressive tack on O. Until then, . . .
ETA: "5 weeks late and 500 miles south of Atlanta"; thanks for the correction.
Year, YPG, Rank (YPG)
2000 53 376
2001 11 451
2002 86 350
2003 31 418
2004 38 396
2005 60 374
2006 11 417
2007 26 439
2008 55 368
2009 112 305
2010 86 343
2011 86 355
2012 87 374
2013 36 453
As a result, we lose games we could otherwise win and miss out on championships.
(Analogy from Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom for you ol’ timers): so while Les sends Chief into the pit to deal with the exotic animals of offense, he’ll keep our O back at a safe distance.
The hyper-defenders of Les will quickly migrate to last year. Mett had a good year. Our O was refreshingly functional. And still pretty simple in design. It could afford to be. We had a QB who could make any throw on the field, two great WR’s (BTW, did you see how OBJ abused Richard Sherman?) and a full-grown man at RB. But at the end of it all we were 3rd in the SECW in passing, 5th in the SECW in total O, a 3-loss SEC team, and 5 weeks late and 500 miles south of Atlanta.
2013 SECW passing stats (ypg)
A&M 353.3
OM 283.3
LSU 251.0
Bama 248.5
State 244.5
Auburn 173.0
Arky 148.5
2013 SECW total offense (ypg)
A&M 538.4
Auburn 501.3
OM 473.3
Bama 454.1
LSU 453.3
State 434.4
Arky 357.2
IMO, we don’t need a new HC. We don’t. Les does so much so very well. What we need is for Les to get over the ghosts of ’08 and take a more aggressive tack on O. Until then, . . .
ETA: "5 weeks late and 500 miles south of Atlanta"; thanks for the correction.
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 2:26 pm
5
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:52 pm to AlwysATgr
Les knows young QBs tend to make mistakes when asked to do too much is my only explanation.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:56 pm to AlwysATgr
It is well known that Les' football victory philosophy revolves around ball control, defense, and special teams.
Jennings did not turn the ball over (yes, he threw the INT but Les made it clear that was because of Dural falling). In his mind, Les thinks Jennings did his part to help us have a chance to win the game. That's it.
If you could see a list of reasons why we lost to Bama that Les wrote down on paper, QB play would probably be last on his list (5 or 6 reasons down) or not even on his list at all.
Jennings did not turn the ball over (yes, he threw the INT but Les made it clear that was because of Dural falling). In his mind, Les thinks Jennings did his part to help us have a chance to win the game. That's it.
If you could see a list of reasons why we lost to Bama that Les wrote down on paper, QB play would probably be last on his list (5 or 6 reasons down) or not even on his list at all.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 1:56 pm to sjmabry
quote:
Les knows young QBs tend to make mistakes when asked to do too much is my only explanation.
Now explain why we keep finding ourselves with young/shitty QBs. The lack of development under center is CLM's biggest flaw, bar none.
He STILL hasn't recruited a good QB out of high school.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:03 pm to Acadien
quote:I understand your point. But QB development should fall on the OC/QB coach. Les is not working with the QBs on a daily basis. I'm not making any excuses for Les b/c our QB play has generally stunk.
Now explain why we keep finding ourselves with young/shitty QBs. The lack of development under center is CLM's biggest flaw, bar none. He STILL hasn't recruited a good QB out of high school.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:13 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
5 weeks late to Atlanta.
Epic fail.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:15 pm to sjmabry
quote:
I'm not making any excuses for Les b/c our QB play has generally stunk.
It has been the most frequent reason for repeated disappointing losses during the CLM era. It puzzles the mind.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:17 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
It is well known that Les' football victory philosophy revolves around ball control, defense, and special teams
In Les world, the QB is viewed as just another player who 'handles' the ball and can make a mistake, Not someone who distributes the ball, makes plays, and creates problems for the defense. It's the "keep away" offense, and it's why we lose so many close games to high ranked opponents.
Think of all of the 3, 7, and less than 10 point losses we've sustained over the years because our offense can't put up enough points to put the game away, and the defense - tongues wagging- are left on the field too long to try to stop a multilateral attack from a top 10 opponent by playing prevent defense.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:20 pm to AlwysATgr
I'd like you to run the numbers for actual points scored per game. Our coaching staff is notorious for getting inside the 5 yard line and then embarassing itself.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:31 pm to Me4Heisman
The difference between a win and a loss, seem to effect the analysis of the game for many of you. The difference between the OM and UA games are not that much. LSU played a better game(could be competition)against OM but had the turnover problem. Both games went to the wire. Bo tried to win the game and lost. Blake tried to tie the game and did, and won in OT.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:39 pm to NotRight37
When you play "not to lose", it dictates conservativeness and this doesn't instill much confidence in your QB. Unleash the Kracken....and play to win....
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:48 pm to Acadien
quote:
Now explain why we keep finding ourselves with young/shitty QBs. The lack of development under center is CLM's biggest flaw, bar none.
He STILL hasn't recruited a good QB out of high school.
Jefferson, Lee, Jennings and Harris were ALL 4* prospects. SOMEBODY (and not just LSU) thought that they could play. Who's to say that they weren't "good" QBs who were just limited by LSU's offensive approach.
Do you think Johnny Manziel becomes "Johnny Football" Heisman trophy winner at LSU? I don't.
Russell Shepard was the No 1 "dual threat" QB in the country in 09. Had he gone to Oregon he is likely a household name. At LSU he was just a guy they could never figure out how to use. LSU recruited Teddy Bridgewater hard. Do you think he has the same career at LSU that he did at Louisville? I doubt it. LSU really wanted Jeremy Johnson who is now the backup at AU. In limited play at Auburn he has looked leaps and bounds better than either of LSU's QBs. He'll likely be a top SEC QB next year. If he were here I suspect he would be taking the place of Jennings in catching hate from the fanbase.
Maybe it's just me, but at some point one would think to look at any common denominators to figure out LSU's QB woes.
Since 2008 LSU has had 5 QBs start games; 3 different OCs, and only 1 good year of QB play in 6 years. There is however one common denominator over those 6 years.
So whats the answer? It's takes a mandatory 3 years of "seasoning" for a LSU QB to perform well while other programs can have success with young and inexperienced QBs?
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:49 pm to AlwysATgr
I'm sort of torn about the offense because while it is bland and old-fashioned, I like a lot of the old-fashioned stuff -- power running with multiple backs, fullbacks, big TEs, ball-control, ball security, etc.
What I don't like is the lack of aggressiveness, lack of deception/misdirection (I'm talking about both the running game and passing game), lack of involvement of the TEs in the passing game, lack of consistent play at QB.
Also, despite the commitment to running the ball, LSU has never led the SEC in Rushing (Yards Per Game or Yards Per Carry) with Miles.
In 10 years with Miles, LSU averages (SEC ranking) -- #4.5 in Rushing Yards Per Game, and #5.8 in Rushing Yards Per Attempt.
What I don't like is the lack of aggressiveness, lack of deception/misdirection (I'm talking about both the running game and passing game), lack of involvement of the TEs in the passing game, lack of consistent play at QB.
Also, despite the commitment to running the ball, LSU has never led the SEC in Rushing (Yards Per Game or Yards Per Carry) with Miles.
In 10 years with Miles, LSU averages (SEC ranking) -- #4.5 in Rushing Yards Per Game, and #5.8 in Rushing Yards Per Attempt.
This post was edited on 11/11/14 at 4:07 pm
Posted on 11/11/14 at 2:54 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
If you could see a list of reasons why we lost to Bama that Les wrote down on paper, QB play would probably be last on his list (5 or 6 reasons down) or not even on his list at all.
And I'd agree with him. We were drumming Bama, in part because AJ was gashing them by running out of the pocket. Then AJ had to make a throw to keep a drive going He did it! But Quinn dropped it. That was pretty much his last opportunity, iirc. Except that in OT, he executed the first play perfectly, but Jones dropped it! The second pass was a beauty, but the Bama defender made a big league play. For the life of me, I can't remember the third. On fourth down he did what he could in a tough situation, and gave us a chance with a well thrown ball to Dupre. Maybe interference could have been called. He could have run for the first down, but a QB has to choose whether to keep his eyes downfield or not. Plus he doesn't know if he's about to get hit from behind.
From all of this, you get that the QB was the problem? I list the problems like this:
1. Quinn, catch the friggin ball.
2. Vadal, don't lose your cool
3. Kicker, WTF?
4. Jamal, Tackle the receiver in bounds.
5. Jones, catch the friggin ball.
6. AJ, Can you please get the ball to Quinn when he's wide open?
7. Dupre, Catch the friggin ball.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:05 pm to Me4Heisman
quote:
I'd like you to run the numbers for actual points scored per game. Our coaching staff is notorious for getting inside the 5 yard line and then embarassing itself.
I'm not in to the statsy thing so most of my OP is anecdotal, but here's a helpful site: CFB Stats
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:07 pm to Penrod
quote:i believe second down was a throw to the endzone to dupre up the left side, Danielson questioned the playcall.
For the life of me, I can't remember the third. On fourth down he did what he could in a tough situation, and gave us a chance with a well thrown ball to Dupre.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:18 pm to Penrod
quote:
From all of this, you get that the QB was the problem?
Not me. I agree with what you said. Jennings could have played better, of course, but he is not the reason we lost the game.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 3:42 pm to Penrod
quote:
the QB was the problem?
QB play was a factor in the Bama game but by no means the only one.
My point, is that before and during the Bama game, our fundamental approach to O was flawed (and has been since '08 because Les overreacted to the turnover fest).
Hence, Les doesn’t really expect or demand that our QB’s function more proficiently. It’s no longer part of the game plan.
Posted on 11/11/14 at 4:09 pm to Alt26
quote:
Russell Shepard was the No 1 "dual threat" QB in the country in 09. Had he gone to Oregon he is likely a household name.
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