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re: Pope Francis endorses evolution and big bang
Posted on 10/29/14 at 11:40 pm to Revelator
Posted on 10/29/14 at 11:40 pm to Revelator
quote:
I simply posted the Pope in his own words against what his Church doctrine says.
No, you did not. You posted Pope Francis's explanation concerning the Church's teaching on redemption. I then posted Pope Francis's explanation concerning the Church's teaching on salvation. You admitted yourself that there is a difference.
1
Posted on 10/29/14 at 11:50 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
No, you did not. You posted Pope Francis's explanation concerning the Church's teaching on redemption. I then posted Pope Francis's explanation concerning the Church's teaching on salvation. You admitted yourself that there is a difference.
Why would the Pope bother to tell people that redemption is offered to the entire world through Jesus when this is already common knowledge to anyone that knows anything about Christianity?
He wasn't trying to let people know that everyone has redemption through Christ, but instead lead non believers to have some sense of false security that isn't valid.
And don't think I don't know you are using Catholic talking points in this discussion instead of your own reasoning. I've read the Catholic response to Pope Francis, speech in the Catholicvote.org and other Catholic publications and you are simply spewing their mantra verbatim.
This post was edited on 10/30/14 at 12:16 am
Posted on 10/30/14 at 2:07 am to Revelator
quote:
Posted by Revelator
I have read this whole thread and I have come to the conclusion that you are extremely butt hurt over catholic dogma... Why don't you worry about yours and let us catholics sorry about ours.
Posted on 10/30/14 at 2:23 am to Revelator
quote:
Why would the Pope bother to tell people that redemption is offered to the entire world through Jesus when this is already common knowledge to anyone that knows anything about Christianity?
Because there are those who don't know too much about Christianity perhaps? The Catholic mission is to save the whole world. Believers and non-believers alike.
quote:
He wasn't trying to let people know that everyone has redemption through Christ, but instead lead non believers to have some sense of false security that isn't valid.
That's not what he was doing. We have already established that there is a distinct difference between salvation and redemption. Why are you still hung up on this?
quote:
And don't think I don't know you are using Catholic talking points in this discussion instead of your own reasoning. I've read the Catholic response to Pope Francis, speech in the Catholicvote.org and other Catholic publications and you are simply spewing their mantra verbatim.
It doesn't take a Ph.D in theology to know the difference between salvation and redemption.
Posted on 10/30/14 at 4:04 am to geauxcats10
quote:
I have read this whole thread and I have come to the conclusion that you are extremely butt hurt over catholic dogma... Why don't you worry about yours and let us catholics sorry about ours.
The topic was about the Pope and his comments.
This post was edited on 10/30/14 at 5:21 am
Posted on 10/30/14 at 6:38 am to Revelator
Rev you don't understand what the Church means by outside the church there is no salvation
from the Catechism
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
also search for Lumen Gentium and read #14-17. This contains the official teaching on no salvation outside the Church. It's not what you claim.
from the Catechism
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
also search for Lumen Gentium and read #14-17. This contains the official teaching on no salvation outside the Church. It's not what you claim.
This post was edited on 10/30/14 at 6:43 am
Posted on 10/30/14 at 6:45 am to Hawkeye95
I'm not sure what this thread has devolved into bc I didn't read it. I read the Pope's comments a few days ago and I think they are incredible!
I'm not Catholic but I am really liking what this Pope is saying, the dude seems to understand common sense and religion can go together
I'm not Catholic but I am really liking what this Pope is saying, the dude seems to understand common sense and religion can go together
Posted on 10/30/14 at 7:59 am to Tiger1242
quote:
I'm not sure what this thread has devolved into bc I didn't read it. I read the Pope's comments a few days ago and I think they are incredible!
I'm not Catholic but I am really liking what this Pope is saying, the dude seems to understand common sense and religion can go together
Pope Francis is simply repeating something that has been held in the Church since at-least the 50s.
You should also keep in mind that a Catholic Priest first proposed the theory of the expansion of the universe and the big bang.
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