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Making Movies: The Samuel L. Jackson Approach

Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:21 pm
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:21 pm
With some of the recent threads - DC's movie slate, Cabin Fever 2, almost any remake, etc. - I feel like there's a backlash, sometimes, against starting to make any movie. Even with movies that do get made, there's so much of the "This looks stupid" going around, that sometimes it's frustrating.

People don't want movies to be made. Is that the right way to go about it?

Take Samuel L. Jackson for instance, it's widely known he doesn't turn a role down. He does that for fans, at least that's as stated, but I think there's at least some artistic value to that idea. I mean, as consumers, shouldn't we want the widest amount of options? Granted, the first thing you'd say is "If people just make a bunch of crap, then there's just a bunch of crap." So there's the quality issue to contend with.

On the other hand, I think if audiences were willing to take more chances to watch whatever AND studios were given the ability to take more chances due to audience reactions, then maybe we'd have the same kind of quality balance that we have in a controlled "only make what people say they want" process that may or may not exist now, but with more creativity. Chicken or the egg clearly, who breaks first? I think audiences could chill out with the internet reaction to everything. Sometimes it's slightly justified (Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman), sometimes not so much (Ben Affleck in the same movie). Who's can be the judge of that, I'm not sure.

Clearly, all decisions are driven by money, audiences are more comfortable with the familiar, so these ideas have driven recent cinema successes. But if both sides stepped back and reflected on what they like and what they CAN do, maybe we'd see better movies in the end, or at least more creative ones. And you never know how good a movie can be until you watch it, and that goes for EVERYTHING. Even Jack and Jill or Epic Movie, give it a chance if you feel like it. If you don't, don't. No one will be upset if you don't watch a film. (I really do hate the "It looks stupid," kind of comment. That may be the case but so what? Move on.)

In the instance of Cabin Fever 2, I mean, I ask again, why not? There's no reason not to do it. If a bunch of people want to make a movie, and that seems to be the case, I say let them go. Make whatever, that's sometimes the best artistic situation to be in, when everyone is motivated to one goal. I think remakes could get better if audiences and studios could understand one another again. Audiences need to let some of their fandom in check. At the same time, studios can let artists make artistic choices that they want instead of forcing things on treading too close to the line.

Anyways, I like movies. You're here so you probably do too. So let's let them make movies. Let's discuss the finer points, but in terms of making or not making films, so the heck what? Studios should just make movies. Throw some darts. No necessarily with themes or artists, but with content.

tl;dr
/endrant
This post was edited on 10/21/14 at 2:23 pm
Posted by constant cough
Lafayette
Member since Jun 2007
44788 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:31 pm to
quote:

In the instance of Cabin Fever 2, I mean, I ask again, why not?



Cause it looks stupid.
Posted by Freder
Member since Aug 2014
809 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:40 pm to
I feel like people will complain about movies being redundant and unoriginal yet when something different comes along it gets criticized for being weird and different. Point being, audiences don't really know what they want.
Posted by Spaulding Smails
Milano’s Bar
Member since Jun 2012
18805 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:40 pm to
Because the Ghostbusters raping needs to be seen as the joke that it is, and what better way than tons of people on the internet saying "this is going to be fricking stupid"
Posted by Freder
Member since Aug 2014
809 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:45 pm to
You just have to accept that Hollywood is going to keep doing what makes them money. If audiences keep flocking to every 80s remake and superhero adaptation...well why fix what isn't broken? The only way to get them to do something different is to stop giving them money. The Hollywood Renaissance of the 60s/70s is a prime example of this.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

I feel like people will complain about movies being redundant and unoriginal yet when something different comes along it gets criticized for being weird and different. Point being, audiences don't really know what they want.


This.

Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:47 pm to
quote:

Because the Ghostbusters raping needs to be seen as the joke that it is, and what better way than tons of people on the internet saying "this is going to be fricking stupid"

This is the one where i had to do some soul searching on. I got a little worked up about that one. See the thread.

But after second thought, as much as I don't want to see it, will it really ruin the first two brilliant movies? No. Not one bit. I just won't see this and won't support it. Enough people MAY support it to make it successful, but oh well. Thems the breaks.

And maybe, just maybe, they'll follow this up with a remake that MIGHT be worth the time.
Posted by ProjectP2294
South St. Louis city
Member since May 2007
70097 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:51 pm to
I agree that people complain too much about every movie coming out and we should want more options not less.

But, Caddyshack 2.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:53 pm to
quote:

But, Caddyshack 2.


Posted by Freder
Member since Aug 2014
809 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 2:53 pm to
quote:

But after second thought, as much as I don't want to see it, will it really ruin the first two brilliant movies? No. Not one bit.


Just think of all the remakes of classic movies that have already been made: Karate Kid, Nightmare on Elm Street, Red Dawn, etc. Have they hurt their respective originals in any way? Nope. If anything, after their initial theatrical run and subsequent DVD release, they slide into obscurity while the original lives on.
Posted by ProjectP2294
South St. Louis city
Member since May 2007
70097 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:00 pm to
The Karate Kid one just makes me have to look at the cable guide a little closer to make sure I accidentally watch the Jaden Smith abortion.

ETA: But it may have actually made me like the original more.
This post was edited on 10/21/14 at 3:01 pm
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

it's widely known he doesn't turn a role down.


I will watch any movie staring Sam Jackson or Nick Cage.

Even with a terrible plot or script those guys can make a movie worth watching
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

Anyways, I like movies. You're here so you probably do too. So let's let them make movies. Let's discuss the finer points, but in terms of making or not making films, so the heck what? Studios should just make movies. Throw some darts. No necessarily with themes or artists, but with content.



I agree to most of your post. But some people just shouldnt star in movies.

Jaden Smith for example. Every movie he has been in so far robbed someone more talented of a role.
Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
101915 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

The only way to get them to do something different is to stop giving them money.


This.

For the most part, it's a business. Same with music or TV, maybe there are some "artists" out there making what they want without regard to commercial success, but they are the minority.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

Just think of all the remakes of classic movies that have already been made: Karate Kid, Nightmare on Elm Street, Red Dawn, etc. Have they hurt their respective originals in any way? Nope. If anything, after their initial theatrical run and subsequent DVD release, they slide into obscurity while the original lives on.


Agreed.

The reaction can be a bit overblown. I think the same goes for sequel or prequel-itis.

I was actually ok, and pleasantly surprised by the Thing prequel. It wasn't perfect (few movies are, but The Thing is one of them), but it was serviceable. And remember, The Thing itself as a great film is a remake.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37244 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:36 pm to
I don't think you would but some might, is making movies for money automatically a bad thing?

Or another way to put it, can we get quality film production if people are in it for the money?

I mean, obviously yes, but I don't think making movies for money vs artists is that black and white.
Posted by genro
Member since Nov 2011
61788 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

Clearly, all decisions are driven by money, audiences are more comfortable with the familiar, so these ideas have driven recent cinema successes. But if both sides stepped back and reflected on what they like and what they CAN do, maybe we'd see better movies in the end, or at least more creative ones. And you never know how good a movie can be until you watch it, and that goes for EVERYTHING. Even Jack and Jill or Epic Movie, give it a chance if you feel like it. If you don't, don't. No one will be upset if you don't watch a film. (I really do hate the "It looks stupid," kind of comment. That may be the case but so what? Move on.)
I get what you're saying, but this paragraph sort of highlights the flaw. Hollywood movie-making is (obviously) not some pure form of auteurism. Even the major "artists" we consider pure (let's say Kubrick, Lynch, Solondz) have to operate within this framework, receive producer backing, hire known actors, promote their films, and make them palatable to their audience. If they want to survive, anyways. It is a product, not a piece of art. And we seem to have accepted this reality. It's sort of the logistical reality of film-making. We don't have the time and money and space to analyze the subjectivity of film for film's sake, the way we do modern art. I can hang a painting of an empty canvas with a smear of dung in one corner and it's real easy for us to sit around and analyze it artistically. Try to do the same thing for Warhol's Empire. frick that. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Film has to be packaged as a product. It is necessarily a for-profit venture that costs millions to make. Thus, the resources are limited. There's only a finite number of films Hollywood can churn out per year. There must be a market for it. "That looks stupid" is like test research. If someone invents a double-ended hammer, not only is it fricking stupid, it's a waste of valuable metal, wood, and time, that could be spent on something better. And no one will buy it. Isn't it better to tell them that ahead of time? Especially when you consider that profitable amateur tinkering outside Hollywood is basically impossible in film-making (Kevin Smith's Clerks notwithstanding).

Now, you're right that we don't really know what we want. "That looks stupid" is sometimes wrong. They force it on us anyways, and prove us wrong. Or some shitty movies make money anyways, because people are stupid and think they need a double-ended hammer even though it doesn't fricking work.

But the idea of "just let them make all the movies they possibly can" doesn't make sense. They ARE making all the movies they possibly can. It's just a finite number. Shouldn't we try to make sure those limited number of movies we receive are good?
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

can we get quality film production if people are in it for the money?



depends on who is directing.

As stated some actors just shouldnt be in movies. Acting is a profession. And you an be bad at it. I hate when people jam shitty actors into a movie just to get i made
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58036 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:43 pm to
they already made Cabin Fever 2 and Cabin Fever 3

the one announced today is just a remake of the original
This post was edited on 10/21/14 at 3:44 pm
Posted by Breesus
House of the Rising Sun
Member since Jan 2010
66982 posts
Posted on 10/21/14 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

Even the major "artists" we consider pure (let's say Kubrick, Lynch, Solondz) have to operate within this framework, receive producer backing, hire known actors, promote their films, and make them palatable to their audience. If they want to survive, anyways. It is a product, not a piece of art. And we seem to have accepted this reality.


Sadly this thought process kills movies like Rocky. And it has killed the outliers that made the industry.

Rocky could never and would never get made today.

Same goes for Sling Blade.

And the scare of a public backlash is insane as well. Mel Brooks couldn't make a movie today.
This post was edited on 10/21/14 at 3:46 pm
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