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Started By
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NYTimes feature - Has the libertarian moment finally arrived?
Posted on 8/10/14 at 10:54 pm
Posted on 8/10/14 at 10:54 pm
7
Posted on 8/10/14 at 10:56 pm to Eurocat
“I have always found it quaint and rather touching that there is a movement [Libertarians] in the US that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough.”
-Christopher Hitchens
-Christopher Hitchens
This post was edited on 8/10/14 at 10:57 pm
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:01 pm to Eurocat
Hopefully, but sadly, there are many people in America who think that limited government means "death in the streets".
A libertarian movement can only take hold among a people that are absolutely convinced that men are charitable and good-natured. Fiscal liberals by far think, in terms of economies, that men are evil and need to be controlled and taxed by goons who have a monopoly on power. Social conservatives believe that men are evil, culturally speaking, and need to be controlled and regulated by goons who have a monopoly on power. In my view, though, fiscal liberals have a far more negative view of human nature than social conservatives. Layabout and TUba and Rex believe that men and women making their own choices in a market will lead to death.
The greatest threat to the libertarian movement is from the people who worship government control of the economy, and that is about 98% of the democRat party.
A libertarian movement can only take hold among a people that are absolutely convinced that men are charitable and good-natured. Fiscal liberals by far think, in terms of economies, that men are evil and need to be controlled and taxed by goons who have a monopoly on power. Social conservatives believe that men are evil, culturally speaking, and need to be controlled and regulated by goons who have a monopoly on power. In my view, though, fiscal liberals have a far more negative view of human nature than social conservatives. Layabout and TUba and Rex believe that men and women making their own choices in a market will lead to death.
The greatest threat to the libertarian movement is from the people who worship government control of the economy, and that is about 98% of the democRat party.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:03 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
-Christopher Hitchens
What else would a communist say about libertarianism?
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:04 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
selfish
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:06 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
“I have always found it quaint and rather touching that there is a movement [Libertarians] in the US that thinks Americans are not yet selfish enough.”
-Christopher Hitchens
Hitchens wasn't that stupid. He was stroking a particular audience's bias.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:07 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Most people live in fear. Hard to be Libertarian when you are scared to live on your own terms.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:08 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Hitchens wasn't that stupid
yes because having a view that doesn't mix with your understanding of something = stupid
This post was edited on 8/10/14 at 11:09 pm
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:08 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Hitchens was so overrated. Never got the hype.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:11 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
yes because having a view that doesn't mix with your understanding of something = stupid
No, believing that libertarians are all "selfish" is stupid, and he understood his audience. You seem to have bought into it.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:11 pm to Draconian Sanctions
The libertarians I know are pretty generous people. They just don't want their charity directed by the government.
There's no rational conflict between "the government shouldn't redistribute money" and "charity is good."
There's no rational conflict between "the government shouldn't redistribute money" and "charity is good."
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:12 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Hitchens wasn't that stupid
He was stupid enough to admire Che, that's stupid enough.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:15 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
No, believing that libertarians are all "selfish" is stupid
he didn't say anything about libertarians, he was talking about libertarianism as a movement and a philosophy. Surely you realize that he didn't necessarily mean to label ALL followers of that philosophy with 100% of it's maxims, right?
quote:
You seem to have bought into it.
you're projecting again
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:17 pm to Draconian Sanctions
DS, I thought it was interesting how Hitchens actually supported the war in Iraq.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:18 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
he didn't say anything about libertarians,
quote:
he was talking about libertarianism as a movement and a philosophy
So, people who follow the libertarian philosophy (Which has nothing to do with selfishness) are not Libertarians?
Well frick me. Who would have thought?
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:20 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
So, people who follow the libertarian philosophy (Which has nothing to do with selfishness) are not Libertarians?
Well frick me. Who would have thought?
So if i self describe myself as liberal that means as far as you're concerned that means i MUST support every bit of of liberal political philosophy?
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:22 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
DS, I thought it was interesting how Hitchens actually supported the war in Iraq.
That was the thing about Hitchens, there was no predictability. I disagreed with him on so many things, but I can't deny that he had one of the sharpest minds of our time.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:25 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
e didn't say anything about libertarians, he was talking about libertarianism as a movement and a philosophy
I fricking hate lawyers
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:25 pm to wfeliciana
I always found him a tad arrogant, but I guess it's hard not to be when you are very intelligent. I disagreed with him on almost everything, but, in my view, intellectualism is more about being able to explain yourself coherently than being correct.
I do, however, find it interesting how someone who was so against the concept of god was not against the worship of big government. Often times, if not always, both rely entirely on blind faith.
I do, however, find it interesting how someone who was so against the concept of god was not against the worship of big government. Often times, if not always, both rely entirely on blind faith.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 11:26 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
So if i self describe myself as liberal that means as far as you're concerned that means i MUST support every bit of of liberal political philosophy?
Absolutely not. However, If I talk about liberal philosophy, I'm definitely talking about liberals.
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