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Message
This administration handed over Iraq to extremists.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:09 am
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:09 am
Its incredible. Its the truth. Its sad.
Doesn't matter whether you agreed with the Iraq war or not, this president has made the country less secure with his nonsense.
God save us.
Doesn't matter whether you agreed with the Iraq war or not, this president has made the country less secure with his nonsense.
God save us.
17
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:12 am to kilo
Not sure I can agree with this premise. Obama might have made a halfhearted effort to keep us there, but the fact is it's their country and they told us to GTFO.
Bush was the one who agreed to the 2011 timetable.
The real problem is that Iraq is apparently the France of the Middle East--they surrender at the sound of the first shot.
Bush was the one who agreed to the 2011 timetable.
The real problem is that Iraq is apparently the France of the Middle East--they surrender at the sound of the first shot.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:28 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Obama might have made a halfhearted effort to keep us there, but the fact is it's their country and they told us to GTFO.
Nouri al-Maliki was never in a position to tell "us" to "GTFO". Maliki's platform was always founded by removal of US forces. It was the Shia desire to move the US out of Iraq without the power base to secure the country and an eager whitehouse wanting to fulfill campaign promises.
This administration was glad to bow down to the calls to leave Iraq. The status of Forces haggling was just a cover for this.
We have a shite president. Folks want to point to Bush as the culprit? Fine, Bush was shite. That is certainly debatable but doubling down on that by creating this vacuum where militants can breed is just the height of insanity.
I have spent 30 months over two tours in that hell hole and every single gain we made, especially in Mosul during my first deployment in 2004, have gone to shite.
This post was edited on 8/10/14 at 8:34 am
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:30 am to kilo
quote:
Its incredible. Its the truth. Its sad.
Doesn't matter whether you agreed with the Iraq war or not, this president has made the country less secure with his nonsense.
God save us.
Both President Bush and President Obama, and Congress, were committed to leave Iraq. It was never in the cards that we were to be permanent or long time occupiers (although that may be the only way to have maintained any stability). Plus, the government of Iraq asked/told us to leave.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:32 am to kilo
quote:
an eager whitehouse wanting to fulfill campaign promises.
an eager whithouse, and eager former whitehouse, and eager congress and an eager american people who were tired of the loss of money and lives for the cause of iraq
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:35 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:Rumsfield/Bush were also the ones who basically cut Sunnis out of the reformed government. Huge mistake! Inexcusable. Led appropriately to DR's resignation.
Bush was the one who agreed to the 2011 timetable
However, Bush would not have allowed Iraq to disintegrate as it has either. Where 'W' made mistakes in foreign policy, BHO has no discernible policy at all.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:37 am to kilo
The high-ranking active duty military planners who are forbidden by law from speaking out on this issue agree with you.
Obama's precipitous withdrawal destabilized conditions on the ground. Obama did attain his objective, which was to use the "end" of the Iraq war for domestic political points.
See, Obama has always known that, if Iraq was later lost, the blame would always be on Bush, and never on Obama.
Obama had nothing to lose by focusing on domestic political objectives and everything to gain.
If Iraq's story turned out to be a success, Obama would take the credit. If Iraq was lost, Bush would take the blame.
There was no way that Obama could suffer political defeat with his decision for precipitous withdrawal. In the world of Realpolitik, he couldn't lose.
Now, if we had an objective and inquisitive news media in the USA, things might be different, but, we don't and they aren't.
Obama's precipitous withdrawal destabilized conditions on the ground. Obama did attain his objective, which was to use the "end" of the Iraq war for domestic political points.
See, Obama has always known that, if Iraq was later lost, the blame would always be on Bush, and never on Obama.
Obama had nothing to lose by focusing on domestic political objectives and everything to gain.
If Iraq's story turned out to be a success, Obama would take the credit. If Iraq was lost, Bush would take the blame.
There was no way that Obama could suffer political defeat with his decision for precipitous withdrawal. In the world of Realpolitik, he couldn't lose.
Now, if we had an objective and inquisitive news media in the USA, things might be different, but, we don't and they aren't.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:38 am to kilo
he's an idiot. but, I certainly didn't oppose of pulling out.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:39 am to VOR
quote:
an eager whithouse, and eager former whitehouse, and eager congress and an eager american people who were tired of the loss of money and lives for the cause of iraq
That doesnt matter.
The reality is this country is less secure that it was with our presence in Iraq.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:45 am to kilo
quote:
The reality is this country is less secure that it was with our presence in Iraq.
I kige that, but what were we supposed to do? Keep a large force there for decades?
At some point we had to leave anyway. And while Maliki couldn't physically force us to leave, we did have a moral obligation to honor his request--as well as a very good geopolitical reason. If we'd stayed against the wishes of the Iraqi government we would have validated the claims that we were a colonizing/occupying force.
I hate that we might end up having spent all of that blood and treasure for nothing, but at some point we had to leave and let the Iraqis handle their own business.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:46 am to kilo
I do believe our perception of Iraq and what is happening is built on a false premise. The majority of Americans only know what the news reports, and we all know that is skewed. Every soldier I talk to gives a different account from the news, and it is typically far worse than what is being reported. Those people in the mideast are barbaric in nature, I do believe it is a genetic makeup.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:48 am to VOR
quote:
Both President Bush and President Obama, and Congress, were committed to leave Iraq. It was never in the cards that we were to be permanent or long time occupiers (although that may be the only way to have maintained any stability). Plus, the government of Iraq asked/told us to leave.
So, because you say everybody wanted to abandon Iraq to the extremists that Obama had a good reason to do so?
Is that Obama's standard? In that case, how come Obama imposes and compels his domestic agenda on the US electorate when poll after poll show that We the People don't WANT his agenda?
Obama knew that if Iraq was lost, Bush will take the blame. Obama knew that if Iraq survived, HE would take the credit.
He was in a win/win situation. There was no political advantage for Obama to gain by showing leadership in Iraq by demonstrating commitment to safeguard the military victory won by the blood sweat and tears of our military.
So, because there was no political advantage to be gained, Obama took the easy way out, since he would have the political "win" anyway.
This is what happens when we elect Democrats.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:50 am to kilo
Worse Kilo...made all the sacrifices of blood and treasure over the last 13 years...worthless; because he don't want to muddy up his Egalitarian resume. He is not fit to hold the office that is sworn to PROTECT US.
All the economic and military consequences of Obama's feckless policy will be manifest in the near future; and we'll have to deal with each of them. It'll be ugly; and hopefully, we'll learn that we don't elect Presidents who worship idealist/Utopian ideology...but just do the job they are sworn by their Oath to God to do.
All the economic and military consequences of Obama's feckless policy will be manifest in the near future; and we'll have to deal with each of them. It'll be ugly; and hopefully, we'll learn that we don't elect Presidents who worship idealist/Utopian ideology...but just do the job they are sworn by their Oath to God to do.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:50 am to oldcharlie8
quote:
he's an idiot. but, I certainly didn't oppose of pulling out.
I served, 30 months over two tours in combat arms; both in Iraq.
I would like to say that one thing was very, very clear during that time. While we may not have been fighting the good fight for those ten years trying to win hearts and minds of the Iraqis and Afgani's WE WERE PROVIDING A CONVENIENT TARGET for these crazy extremists. We were an armed speed bump, an armed first line of defense. Not any more people, not anymore.
They want to kill Americans. Thats the blunt truth, none of our reasoning here means anything to them. By removing that target, you are basically telling them to come after more. It makes me so very sad that things have come to this.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:53 am to kilo
quote:
That doesnt matter.
Truth doesn't matter?
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:54 am to Rex
quote:
Rex doesn't matter?
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:54 am to RCDfan1950
I agree, RCD.
I'd like the Stonehead Defenders of Obama to continue to chime in. They need to keep telling us all that Obama's withdrawal from Iraq was a great idea.
All we have to do to rebut them is to tell them to take a look at the news: Iraq is lost, but the USA is STILL militarily involved there for the foreseeable future. Any objective observer would have to agree that Obama's idea to withdraw at that time hasn't turned out well (which is an understatement, given the fact that there's a genocidal army now there committing mass murder).
I'd like the Stonehead Defenders of Obama to continue to chime in. They need to keep telling us all that Obama's withdrawal from Iraq was a great idea.
All we have to do to rebut them is to tell them to take a look at the news: Iraq is lost, but the USA is STILL militarily involved there for the foreseeable future. Any objective observer would have to agree that Obama's idea to withdraw at that time hasn't turned out well (which is an understatement, given the fact that there's a genocidal army now there committing mass murder).
Posted on 8/10/14 at 8:59 am to kilo
quote:
This administration handed over Iraq to extremists.
Its incredible. Its the truth. Its sad.
Doesn't matter whether you agreed with the Iraq war or not, this president has made the country less secure with his nonsense.
God save us.
You're a moron.
Posted on 8/10/14 at 9:00 am to kilo
If Obama had a "do-over" in his dealings with Maliki, he should have had someone put a bullet in the back of his head.
Maliki's government is a failure. Why should the US have put more US lives in danger by this incompetent, sectarian fool? Maliki was chosen by the Bush administration. His leadership has been a disaster. What is happening now in Iraq is a direct result of Maliki's absolute incompetence and his failure to try to unite the Iraqi people.
The US has spent 17 billion in training & equipping the Iraqi army. WTF is the problem with these people? Was that not sufficient support?
Maliki's government is a failure. Why should the US have put more US lives in danger by this incompetent, sectarian fool? Maliki was chosen by the Bush administration. His leadership has been a disaster. What is happening now in Iraq is a direct result of Maliki's absolute incompetence and his failure to try to unite the Iraqi people.
The US has spent 17 billion in training & equipping the Iraqi army. WTF is the problem with these people? Was that not sufficient support?
Posted on 8/10/14 at 9:01 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
However, Bush would not have allowed Iraq to disintegrate as it has either.
How? With his magic beans?
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