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Message
True or False re: Truman dropping the A-bomb on Japan:
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:37 pm
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:37 pm
1. Truman's decision to drop the atom bomb is the primary (or most significant) reason that the West & Russia didn't battle each other immediately (or very soon) after the end of WWII. Said another way, it's the direct reason the Cold War was a cold war and not WWIII (or WWII+).
2. The existence of atomic weapons have had the greatest impact on maintaining relative peace throughout the developed world over the last 70 years.
3. The existence of atomic weapons have saved more lives through fears of MAD and subsequent avoidance of direct conflicts than they have taken through (a) them being dropped, or (b) proxy wars.
4. On balance, dropping the bomb was the right call by Truman for the sake of long-term peace.
Go.
2. The existence of atomic weapons have had the greatest impact on maintaining relative peace throughout the developed world over the last 70 years.
3. The existence of atomic weapons have saved more lives through fears of MAD and subsequent avoidance of direct conflicts than they have taken through (a) them being dropped, or (b) proxy wars.
4. On balance, dropping the bomb was the right call by Truman for the sake of long-term peace.
Go.
20
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:38 pm to PenguinNinja
Yes, killing millions of people is always a good way to keep the peace. 
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:43 pm to TX Tiger
quote:Jesus Christ.
Yes, killing millions of people is always a good way to keep the peace.
Millions weren't killed.
Millions would have been if we hadn't dropped the bomb.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:43 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
es, killing millions of people is always a good way to keep the peace
Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki.
Never let the facts get in the way of your pathetic rhetoric.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:44 pm to PenguinNinja
quote:
1. Truman's decision to drop the atom bomb is the primary (or most significant) reason that the West & Russia didn't battle each other immediately (or very soon) after the end of WWII. Said another way, it's the direct reason the Cold War was a cold war and not WWIII (or WWII+).
I definitely helped.
quote:
2. The existence of atomic weapons have had the greatest impact on maintaining relative peace throughout the developed world over the last 70 years.
The developed world has remained developed in part because of relative lack of war - so I think we're dealing with selection bias here. There's been plenty of violence in the world since WW II.
quote:
3. The existence of atomic weapons have saved more lives through fears of MAD and subsequent avoidance of direct conflicts than they have taken through (a) them being dropped, or (b) proxy wars.
Perhaps - but it remains to be seen whether they will lead to our total annihilation at some point in the future.
quote:
4. On balance, dropping the bomb was the right call by Truman for the sake of long-term peace.
He probably could have gotten away with a single bomb at least.
Japan was willing to surrender. Arguments that it was necessary to finish off Japan aren't really true. On the other hand - Japanese life was worthless to us at that point. Perhaps only Nazi Germany itself has ever presented a more evil threat to the world. So we may as well have used them to show off to the Soviets. frick em.
Any time I hear Japanese people complaining about the A-Bomb I think of shite like this:
LINK /
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 4:51 pm
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:45 pm to PenguinNinja
True on all accounts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:46 pm to TX Tiger
quote:You act like all humans from all countries are morally equivalent to each other. In times of war, this is not true. Japan was the enemy. While laws of war and a good soul tell us not to senselessly kill citizens, Japanese people were worth less (morally) than American soldiers.
people
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:46 pm to PenguinNinja
quote:
1. Truman's decision to drop the atom bomb is the primary (or most significant) reason that the West & Russia didn't battle each other immediately (or very soon) after the end of WWII. Said another way, it's the direct reason the Cold War was a cold war and not WWIII (or WWII+).
Depends on which historical reference you read. But most will agree atomic weapons is the reason the Cold War never got too hot.
quote:
2. The existence of atomic weapons have had the greatest impact on maintaining relative peace throughout the developed world over the last 70 years.
Until the fall of the Soviet Union most likely...though the world has largely been fighting mini-wars since.
quote:
. The existence of atomic weapons have saved more lives through fears of MAD and subsequent avoidance of direct conflicts than they have taken through (a) them being dropped, or (b) proxy wars.
Yup
quote:
4. On balance, dropping the bomb was the right call by Truman for the sake of long-term peace.
It was the right call because you were fighting an insane enemy who was determined to die fighting you and killing as many of you as possible. A general invasion of Japan would have been a nightmare of American deaths. And in war the only people I care about are Americans.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:47 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
Yes, killing millions of people is always a good way to keep the peace.
I think you mean 130,000 - the number of combined people who died in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Had those not have been dropped, and had the United States and the Allies invaded mainland Japan in late-1945/early-1946, the losses for the Allies alone would have been around 1 million killed and wounded.
I'm sorry, but I would take the lives of 130,000 Japanese civilians over the life of a single American soldier any day of the week.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:47 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
quote:
4. On balance, dropping the bomb was the right call by Truman for the sake of long-term peace.
He probably could have gotten away with a single bomb at least.
But for that pesky detail of Japan STILL refusing to surrender after the first one was dropped, I guess you're possibly right.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:48 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
Yes, killing millions of people is always a good way to keep the peace.
Credit to the deep, long-term, critical thinking brigade. I underestimated your response time.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:48 pm to TX Tiger
The deaths by the bombs was tragic of course, but many believe the death toll for both sides would have been higher if an invasion of japan itself had been necessary. I'm no expert on the matter so I can't say that definitively. Add in the deterrence benefit the bomb provided with Russia and while a bad thing, the bomb may have been the better alternative in the long run.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:48 pm to asurob1
quote:Oh, that's right, war begets peace. Why can't I remember that?
es, killing millions of people is always a good way to keep the peace
Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000–80,000 in Nagasaki.
Never let the facts get in the way of your pathetic rhetoric.
I'd better go watch some more TV.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:49 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
Japan was willing to surrender.
Not true. The military leaders and many of the civilian leaders wanted to carry on the fight. Only when they asked Emperor Hirohito what his opinion was did the Japanese begin to entertain the thought of surrender. Even when he told them to surrender, elements of the military leadership attempted a coup to stop the surrender from taking place.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:51 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:I find it interesting that the dumber people are, the more they thirst for war.
You act like all humans from all countries are morally equivalent to each other. In times of war, this is not true. Japan was the enemy. While laws of war and a good soul tell us not to senselessly kill citizens, Japanese people were worth less (morally) than American soldiers.
Not sure why that is, but answer me this, why aren't you folks out there killing someone? It really doesn't matter who, they could eventually become a nuisance to you or someone you love.
Why wait?
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:52 pm to RollTide1987
Also what is lost in the whole controversy surrounding the deaths of all those civilians is that 40,000 Japanese soldiers (an entire army) were stationed in Hiroshima, right in the vicinity of Ground Zero.
An additional 10,000 men (an infantry division) were stationed in Nagasaki.
An additional 10,000 men (an infantry division) were stationed in Nagasaki.
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:52 pm to TX Tiger
First, tell us more about the millions who were killed. You're so educated on this.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:52 pm to PenguinNinja
Do you know that Japan to this day has a shrine that honors the war criminals of world war 2? To this day, the official Japanese government denies the rape of nanking.
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:53 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
But for that pesky detail of Japan STILL refusing to surrender after the first one was dropped
The bombs were dropped 3 days apart for crying out loud. This is 1945 in a nation obliterated by warfare - its not like you can just send you bff in Toyko a text saying 'hey, looks like Hiroshima is gone, tell the Emperor' frick all the knew for sure at the time it was dropped is no communication coming out of HIroshima - again - probably not a big surprise in an obliterated nation.
Further - the Japanese had already made attempts to surrender on the sole condition they keep their Emperor - something we allowed them to do anyway and in spite of their eventual unconditional surrender - and an mere formality. There is no way Truman would have send a hundred thousand American soldiers to their death just to keep the Emperor out of nominal power.
But - like I said - frick em. They deserved it if you ask me.
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:55 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Do you know that Japan to this day has a shrine that honors the war criminals of world war 2?
Yes - this is why even though I think the bombs weren't necessary - I don't care. Its war against a people dedicated to our destruction. We had a big bomb. We dropped it. Maybe we didn't have to. So what.
Germany on the other hand is quite different. In Germany you will go to prison for denying what Germany did during WW II. As a nation they have truly embraced their shame.
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 4:55 pm
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