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When Affirmative Action Discriminates against Minorities (Reason Blog)

Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:34 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422561 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:34 pm
Asians, of course
quote:


New York City politicians—including Mayor Bill de Blasio—want to change the admissions system for the city's nine highly-selective premiere public high schools, including nationally-renowned Stuyvesant High School. The schools currently use a single exam, the Specialized High Schools Admissions Test, to determine admittance. Less than three percent of applicants are admitted to Stuyvesant.

The problem, in the eyes of some, is that black and Latino students are increasingly underrepresented at the elite schools. So are white students. When a test score is the only criteria, it seems that Asian Americans are more likely than other racial groups to gain admission to Stuyvesant.


quote:

“I do not believe a single test should be determinative, particularly for something that is as life-changing for so many young people,” de Blasio, who would need to persuade the state Legislature to amend the law, said last week. “We have to determine what combination of measures will be fair.”


oh yeah, and by using the "resume method", the poor (of all races) are hurt and the rich are rewarded

quote:

A Chinese student like Ting Shi who has to help out in his parents’ laundromat is not going on “service” trips to Nicaragua with the children in de Blasio’s affluent Park Slope neighborhood. The LDF’s suggested admissions criteria — student portfolios, leadership skills and community service — are all subject to privileged parents’ ability to buy their children the indicia of impressiveness.

Ironically, eliminating the SHSAT would magnify the role of what progressives call “unconscious bias” — the idea that we have a preference for those who look like us and share our backgrounds. Subjective evaluation measures like interviews and portfolio reviews are much more susceptible to such bias than is an objective examination.


objective determinations? bad

progress hurting minority groups and poor people? good

Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
112484 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 4:42 pm to
Stuyvesant? Hell, you should look at Bronx HS of Science. Asians, Jews, Indians (from India). What do they all have in common? High IQs.
Posted by Asgard Device
The Daedalus
Member since Apr 2011
11562 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 5:23 pm to
I've said this before in another thread and was hated on, but eventually blacks will demand that Asians be disqualified from being counted as a minority.. and they will succeed.

Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422561 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 5:27 pm to
if we go back to how different racial classes of immigrants were treated, blacks had it worst (obviously). but asians weren't exactly treated well, and they were treated worse than latinos. THAT is the gap you want to monitor

if asians are excluded for lations due to historical justifications, you essentially have de facto racial segregation based on nothing more than race...solely because one race bucks the trends of disproportional representation and success (and we ignore jews, but they buck it, too)
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 7:20 pm
Posted by dallastiger55
Jennings, LA
Member since Jan 2010
27723 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:12 pm to
What have blacks done with all the handouts and letting them go to any school we wan them too in some cities?
Posted by Gray Tiger
Prairieville, LA
Member since Jan 2004
36512 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:17 pm to
quote:

but asians weren't exactly treated well, and they were treated better than latinos.


I'm not sure I agree with that. Consider the treatment given the Chinese on the West Coast especially during the gold Rush and railroad building period.
Read up on the agricultural development of Hawaii.
We can't forget the treatment of the Japanese during WWII.
A lot of minorities have had a tough row to hoe.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422561 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:19 pm to
i said that wrong. i meant worse

so in the rankings of races and bad treatment

1. blacks









2. asians



3. latinos
Posted by Gray Tiger
Prairieville, LA
Member since Jan 2004
36512 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:27 pm to
Are you saying that past unfair treatment should be measured so that current discrimination reflects it?
The worse the past treatment, the greater the current favorable discrimination?

Or am I totally off base here?
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
10590 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:28 pm to
Man this board has been on quite the AA binge the last couple days
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422561 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:29 pm to
quote:

Are you saying that past unfair treatment should be measured so that current discrimination reflects it?

no

but the argument for those pushing for rewarding race use it as their justification, even when it doesn't reflect historical realities

quote:

The worse the past treatment, the greater the current favorable discrimination?

that's what the argument will be with these policies. how else can they systematically decrease asian representation from AA or AA-like systems (as legitimate minority groups)? what other justification will they use?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422561 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:30 pm to
i skimmed that Wisconsin policy (the actual pdf from the university) and i think the posted article ( and the one linked within the article) were off. i didn't see that stuff. i didn't post about it b/c i was watching a movie at the time an didn't devote enough of my resources to skimming the policy
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
10590 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:31 pm to
quote:

i skimmed that Wisconsin policy (the actual pdf from the university) and i think the posted article ( and the one linked within the article) were off.

Shocked, shocked I tell you!
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422561 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:32 pm to
well i think the stuff started with a prof at wisconsin bitching, so i imagine i may have missed it

it did do what the stuff in the OP wants to do, ie, looking at the "Whole resume"
This post was edited on 7/21/14 at 7:33 pm
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
10590 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:34 pm to
quote:

it did do what the stuff in the OP wants to do, ie, looking at the "Whole resume"

The Wisconsin thread OP made it seem as if minorities would be graded on a totally different scale, nothing about the "whole resume." Maybe I'm not understanding you here.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422561 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:36 pm to
quote:

The Wisconsin thread OP made it seem as if minorities would be graded on a totally different scale

i didn't see that

i was just pointing out that i did definitely see some BS (in my view) AA-esque policy goals, re: applications

that also kind of "brings things around" re: the thread, b/c that mimics policy goals of the OP (different system, same bullshite)
Posted by Gray Tiger
Prairieville, LA
Member since Jan 2004
36512 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:38 pm to
quote:

what other justification will they use?


How about none? Why not get rid of AA entirely?
Why continue legalized discrimination?
Did we get rid of forcing certain people ride in the back of the bus merely to shove someone else there?
Or is AA just another word for revenge?
Posted by onmymedicalgrind
Nunya
Member since Dec 2012
10590 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:39 pm to
Well to actually address your OP, I see nothing wrong with shifting from entrance exam to "whole resume" type approach. Im no education/administration expert, though
Posted by Patrick_Bateman
Member since Jan 2012
17823 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:44 pm to
quote:

“We have to determine what combination of measures will be fair.”
In other words, we have to insert bias and discrimination into the mix. What the absolute frick.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422561 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:45 pm to
well we got away from that and moved to a more objective analysis to prevent the very stuff AA seeks to cure

it's like the article in the OP says, poor people don't have the same chances at ECs and resume-building
Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
9099 posts
Posted on 7/21/14 at 7:45 pm to
quote:

When Affirmative Action Discriminates against Minorities


Not exactly on topic, but here's Sowell schooling the shite out of Biden about the "effectiveness" of Affirmative Action; LINK
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