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Started By
Message
Concerning Fredericksburg and Petersburg
Posted on 7/2/14 at 8:57 am
Posted on 7/2/14 at 8:57 am
Damn, but Ambrose Burnside was an idiot. At Fredericksburg, particularly, I think as a foot soldier I would have turned to him and said "you want me to do WHAT?"
6
Posted on 7/2/14 at 8:59 am to Rex
From a Civil War standpoint, Fredericksburg and Cold Harbor would be a more appropriate correlation.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 9:03 am to Wolfhound45
Going to Cold Harbor next week.
The Fredericksburg battlefield made me tear up.... those guys from Indiana and Illinois and Vermont, etc., didn't HAVE to be there. They died for the freedom and dignity of their fellow men... it's very noble, sad, and touching.
The Fredericksburg battlefield made me tear up.... those guys from Indiana and Illinois and Vermont, etc., didn't HAVE to be there. They died for the freedom and dignity of their fellow men... it's very noble, sad, and touching.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 9:08 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
Cold Harbor
The Overland Campaign doesn't get much play because the victors write the history but it was slaughter.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 9:41 am to Rex
quote:
The Fredericksburg battlefield made me tear up.... those guys from Indiana and Illinois and Vermont, etc., didn't HAVE to be there. They died for the freedom and dignity of their fellow men... it's very noble, sad, and touching.
I suspect you are thinking of freeing slaves. It was relatively early in the war, almost no Union soldier was there to end slavery but rather to preserve the Union.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:08 am to Lakeboy7
quote:
The Overland Campaign doesn't get much play because the victors write the history but it was slaughter.
In his memoirs Grant himself admits Cold Harbor, particularly the final, futile charge, was his greatest blunder as a commander.
ETA: "I have always regretted that the last assault at Cold Harbor was ever made. ... No advantage whatever was gained to compensate for the heavy loss we sustained."
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 10:12 am
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:11 am to XKEnut
Slavery was one issue but there were others. Men from the North mostly fought to preserve the Union.
Men from the South fought for States Rights, self determination and to protect their lands from a northern invasion.
The thing about it is, it was a war fought with Napoleonic tactics by people with far more efficient weapons than in the Emperor's time. Pickett's charge was straight out of Napoleon's playbook, but the weapons had advanced to a point such a thing was suicidal.
Men from the South fought for States Rights, self determination and to protect their lands from a northern invasion.
The thing about it is, it was a war fought with Napoleonic tactics by people with far more efficient weapons than in the Emperor's time. Pickett's charge was straight out of Napoleon's playbook, but the weapons had advanced to a point such a thing was suicidal.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 10:19 am
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:14 am to antibarner
Grant should have learned his lesson at Vicksburg, sending his men against fortifications they had no chance of taking, before coming to his senses and winning the campaign with a siege.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:29 am to antibarner
quote:
Vicksburg
Hands down the best CW site I've ever experienced. You really need two whole days to take it in.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:44 am to Rex
quote:
Damn, but Ambrose Burnside was an idiot.
The Union Army was loaded with mediocre (or worse) generals - that was one of the reasons the ANV ran wild for over 2 years - a huge imbalance in their favor in quality of field grade and general officers.
As far as commanders for the Army of the Potomac, McDowell was pushed too quickly, and would have been serviceable with time, IMHO - Little Mac was way too cautious (but an incredible trainer/organizer - one of the best in history), Burnside and Hooker were deeply flawed idiots,
Meade was more than competent (although, like Mac, cautious) and even more effective with Grant's support and encouragement during the final phases.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:00 am to Ace Midnight
Right on all accounts.
There where some really fine union commanders and took awhile to be able to get to the top.
And rex...your right in that Burnside side was a lazy oaf. The crazy part is that he was told by almost the entire staff that Lee was waiting on the heights and to cross elsewhere. But being Burnside he dug in his heels and pushed the men across into a killing field.
Its no coincidence that for the rest of the war the Rebs heard "Fredericksburg" shouted when Union victory was at hand.
To another poster who mentioned Vicksburg had a friend who said it was the best site he had yet visited.
To anyone, Chickamauga is also great in the spring or fall.
There where some really fine union commanders and took awhile to be able to get to the top.
And rex...your right in that Burnside side was a lazy oaf. The crazy part is that he was told by almost the entire staff that Lee was waiting on the heights and to cross elsewhere. But being Burnside he dug in his heels and pushed the men across into a killing field.
Its no coincidence that for the rest of the war the Rebs heard "Fredericksburg" shouted when Union victory was at hand.
To another poster who mentioned Vicksburg had a friend who said it was the best site he had yet visited.
To anyone, Chickamauga is also great in the spring or fall.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:04 am to goatmilker
I want to visit my first Civil War site this summer. Which site do you all recommend I visit as my intro to CW battlefields? Sorry for hijack.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:14 am to DosManos
Gettysburg, Vicksburg, Antietam on the first Saturday in December when they light 21,000 candles at dusk (number of casualties) while a bugle plays taps.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:18 pm to goatmilker
Tiger 56 is correct.
I don't know where you are but Chickamauga is not far from La.
I don't know where you are but Chickamauga is not far from La.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:24 pm to Rex
Having been to most of the major civil war sites, standing on little round top at Gettysburg and stared across the field where union troops charged at Fredericksburg, idk how any of them survived
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:30 pm to geauxtigers87
Must sees are little round top and Pickett's charge at Gettysburg.
Sumpter is a nice visit as well.
Sumpter is a nice visit as well.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:36 pm to goatmilker
quote:
I don't know where you are but Chickamauga is not far from La.
Yeah I want to go to Chickamauga, but I'm currently in the Northeast so I'll probably focus on VA,MD, and PA first. Gettysburg is probably the closest to me.
Fredericksburg sounds like it would be a great trip.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 1:44 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
quote:
Vicksburg
Hands down the best CW site I've ever experienced. You really need two whole days to take it in.
I was just at Vicksburg a couple weeks ago. I read the Jeff Shaara book a couple months ago about Vicksburg.
Great battlefield to visit. Humbling experience to still see so many signs of the siege, even in 2014.
I still think Gettysburg is the best to visit, but Vicksburg was incredible as well.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:05 pm to GetCocky11
I just read the Jeff Shaara book,also, well written.
Another idiot was John C.Pemberton, Confederate commander of Vicksburg. Had he laid in enough supplies to start with, he possibly could have waited Grant out, they were not defeated by force of arms but by starvation. I am not sure Grant could have ever overrun the fortifications there without a massive and unacceptable casualty count.
Another idiot was John C.Pemberton, Confederate commander of Vicksburg. Had he laid in enough supplies to start with, he possibly could have waited Grant out, they were not defeated by force of arms but by starvation. I am not sure Grant could have ever overrun the fortifications there without a massive and unacceptable casualty count.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 2:07 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 2:58 pm to antibarner
quote:
I just read the Jeff Shaara book,also, well written.
Another idiot was John C.Pemberton, Confederate commander of Vicksburg. Had he laid in enough supplies to start with, he possibly could have waited Grant out, they were not defeated by force of arms but by starvation. I am not sure Grant could have ever overrun the fortifications there without a massive and unacceptable casualty count.
Part of me feels bad for Pemberton. He was hated by many of his subordinates just because he was from Pennsylvania. Then, he was being pulled in two directions with Jefferson Davis on one side and Joe Johnston on the other side.
Overall though, he was a pretty bad general who got his arse kicked all over Mississippi.
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