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Question about the IRS e-mails, computers, servers, etc.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 6:55 pm
Posted on 6/25/14 at 6:55 pm
From my understanding, e-mails are stored on servers and not the individual computers.
The IRS said they clear the servers of e-mails every 6 months, correct?
But they just clear deleted e-mails, right? They don't delete everyone's e-mails twice a year, do they?
And sorry if this has been covered... I haven't been listening to the hearings.
The IRS said they clear the servers of e-mails every 6 months, correct?
But they just clear deleted e-mails, right? They don't delete everyone's e-mails twice a year, do they?
And sorry if this has been covered... I haven't been listening to the hearings.
This post was edited on 6/25/14 at 6:56 pm
6
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:00 pm to PrimeTime Money
Of course they don't...IRS litigation can take YEARS.
They aren't deleting shite. They wouldn't hamstring their own legal proceedings.
I guarantee off they needed one of those emails to prosecute Romney, they would have it immediately.
They aren't deleting shite. They wouldn't hamstring their own legal proceedings.
I guarantee off they needed one of those emails to prosecute Romney, they would have it immediately.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:05 pm to CptBengal
Cpt has one of the best posts I've ever read on this Ever.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:11 pm to PrimeTime Money
They claim everything is deleted after 180 days. Only way to save it would be to print it, save on a HD or bump then before the deadline.
We have a similar policy but at 90 days.
There are also inbox size restrictions.
In this case, I would likely receive a records hold request from legal based on the inquiry 10 days earlier whereby I would be required to print everything.
We have a similar policy but at 90 days.
There are also inbox size restrictions.
In this case, I would likely receive a records hold request from legal based on the inquiry 10 days earlier whereby I would be required to print everything.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:19 pm to PuntBamaPunt
quote:
They claim everything is deleted after 180 days. Only way to save it would be to print it, save on a HD or bump then before the deadline.
We have a similar policy but at 90 days.
There are also inbox size restrictions.
In this case, I would likely receive a records hold request from legal based on the inquiry 10 days earlier whereby I would be required to print everything.
Yep-we were 120 days. And the litigation hold records were placed on the server in a specific drive that had very limited access.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:27 pm to PrimeTime Money
As far as I can tell, they have a combination of six month archiving and a 150mb inbox limit (lol). They would not delete the emails, but rather archive them by oldest first which would require a request to restore of they are needed. They could also prioritize emails so they are skipped for archiving.
What's also interesting to note is that the only reason the hard drive crash would be relevant at all is if Lerner had taken the initiative to save all her emails to her local server. Something not yet discussed is that it's fairly likely that irs workstations also have some sort of backup service outside of the specific email archiving service provided by sonasoft. So assuming she saved it to a drive that was included in the periodic (most commonly daily incremental and weekly or monthly full backup), they may be sitting there being ignored.
If she pulled them down with a portable drive, well they'd have to claim that drive also crashed.
What's also interesting to note is that the only reason the hard drive crash would be relevant at all is if Lerner had taken the initiative to save all her emails to her local server. Something not yet discussed is that it's fairly likely that irs workstations also have some sort of backup service outside of the specific email archiving service provided by sonasoft. So assuming she saved it to a drive that was included in the periodic (most commonly daily incremental and weekly or monthly full backup), they may be sitting there being ignored.
If she pulled them down with a portable drive, well they'd have to claim that drive also crashed.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:31 pm to GRTiger
But surely e-mails have been retrieved at some point by people from longer than 6 months, right?
For example... what if something came up a year later and somebody needs to go back and retrieve an e-mail... surely they aren't just out of luck. Is that what they are claiming? That anything older than 6 months is gone forever?
For example... what if something came up a year later and somebody needs to go back and retrieve an e-mail... surely they aren't just out of luck. Is that what they are claiming? That anything older than 6 months is gone forever?
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:33 pm to GRTiger
As an edit, we have have personal drives on a separate server to prevent the total loss of files. You don't save anything directly on your machine.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:34 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
But surely e-mails have been retrieved at some point by people from longer than 6 months, right?
For example... what if something came up a year later and somebody needs to go back and retrieve an e-mail... surely they aren't just out of luck. Is that what they are claiming? That anything older than 6 months is gone forever?
I don't know what IRS policy is but from my experience unless someone saved their email (personal drive on server or separate server) then yes they were taped over. We could not use thumb drives or even portable hard drives due to security restrictions.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:35 pm to PrimeTime Money
They are not claiming that emails are gone after 6 months, they are claiming that every single mechanism in place to protect the data failed a short time after a request to get that data was made.
And they are also highlighting a hard drive crash witch I am nearly positive is not relevant and would have no bearing on the recoverability of the data in question.
And they are also highlighting a hard drive crash witch I am nearly positive is not relevant and would have no bearing on the recoverability of the data in question.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:40 pm to wfeliciana
quote:
unless someone saved their email (personal drive on server or separate server) then yes they were taped over.
If you're saying emails not saved directly to your workstation were unrecoverable after the archive period, I seriously doubt that's accurate. I don't know what you do or what industry you're in, but I've never come across anything that ridiculous.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:49 pm to GRTiger
Top 10 bank in the US. Gone after 90 days.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:54 pm to PuntBamaPunt
Maybe they are gone to you...but SEC rules contradict them being completely gone, sorry.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:56 pm to PuntBamaPunt
Nah, not true. Archived and not readily accessible, but not gone forever.
And I guarantee your workstation was backed up daily.
Eta: There's a 20% chance I could tell you exactly what your archiving and data backup polices were within the last five years, including the software and/or vendor used to do it.
And I guarantee your workstation was backed up daily.
Eta: There's a 20% chance I could tell you exactly what your archiving and data backup polices were within the last five years, including the software and/or vendor used to do it.
This post was edited on 6/25/14 at 7:58 pm
Posted on 6/25/14 at 7:58 pm to CptBengal
Link? Clearly anything used to approve a loan would need to be saved for audit and legal holds has been discussed.
This post was edited on 6/25/14 at 8:00 pm
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:01 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
For example... what if something came up a year later and somebody needs to go back and retrieve an e-mail... surely they aren't just out of luck. Is that what they are claiming? That anything older than 6 months is gone forever?
My work is rather small time. Our server stores current emails about 3 months, then archives them. Every email I have sent or received for the past 8 years is retrievable within about a minute and a half. Almost daily, something comes up in my little small time line of work where I have to do so, and I do. I can't imagine being a department head in one of the largest and most prominent federal agencies, and not being capable of doing something similar (or, heaven forbid, having to go through reams of hard copy printouts to find what I'm looking for, as they're suggesting is "protocol"). I'd think if this were really common practice, I would have heard of people left and right clamoring for a change long before now.
The whole thing is preposterous beyond belief.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:16 pm to GRTiger
quote:
unless someone saved their email (personal drive on server or separate server) then yes they were taped over.
If you're saying emails not saved directly to your workstation were unrecoverable after the archive period, I seriously doubt that's accurate. I don't know what you do or what industry you're in, but I've never come across anything that ridiculous.
I worked for DoD. Unless you saved them to your computer's hd or on your personal drive on the server then yes they were taped over. Thumb drives and portable hd 's are not allowed due to security issues. Now if you had a litigation hold issued then no they were not taped over. Like I said, don't know IRS policy but most federal agencies do not permanently archive all emails, most have a 60-180 period where emails are on the server after that they are taped over. That's why most employees keep emails they will need on there hd or on their server drive. And if you did not want them saved you knew they would be taped over. But like I said IRS policy may be different, I don't know and haven't researched the answer.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:21 pm to PrimeTime Money
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:27 pm
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:24 pm to wfeliciana
Did the DoD have an offsite email archiving vendor? Did they have a backup policy on servers and workstations?
I'm not going to imply that i have knowledge of DoD policy, and I have a feeling they were not normal, but if the answer is yes to the above, you could have retrieved emails older than 6 months.
I'm not going to imply that i have knowledge of DoD policy, and I have a feeling they were not normal, but if the answer is yes to the above, you could have retrieved emails older than 6 months.
Posted on 6/25/14 at 8:29 pm to efrad
That article's author takes a lot suspicious claims by irs officials as fact to get to where they wanted to go from the start.
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