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Ok, walk me through IRS email situation...

Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:39 am
Posted by LSUnation78
Northshore
Member since Aug 2012
12073 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:39 am
Ok, I haven't been able to fully keep up on the IRS stuff over the past few days. So maybe there are a few facts I am missing, so let me know if I am missing something that would explain this.


Ok... Lerner's emails are gone because her personal hard drive crashed, and has been recycled.

Lets forget the fact that emails should have been stored on an email server.

Lets just say you buy this story. Ok cool.

What about the other 6 people? Lerner's personal hard drive crashing magically caused 6 other people's email communications to be lost as well? Or is the IRS saying all 7 people's hard drives failed and were recycled?


What am I missing here? Or is this really just that blatant of a lie??
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89552 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:40 am to
Phony Faux News/Koch Brothers scandal.

Not a smidgeon of corruption.

No evidence, no crime.

Please drive through.
Posted by idlewatcher
County Jail
Member since Jan 2012
79205 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:41 am to
quote:

What am I missing here?


Nothing. You are spot on.

quote:

Or is this really just that blatant of a lie??


Inevitably so.....just needs to be proven.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51679 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:43 am to
quote:

Phony Faux News/Koch Brothers scandal.

Not a smidgeon of corruption.

No evidence, no crime.

Please drive through.


Bush's fault

Ann Romney has a horse

Haliburton
Posted by theenemy
Member since Oct 2006
13078 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:45 am to
Romney's wife's horse destroyed all the hard drives and servers. Boom, case solved.
Posted by LSUnation78
Northshore
Member since Aug 2012
12073 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:47 am to
quote:

Nothing. You are spot on.



That's what I was afraid of. Good god this is astounding.
Posted by KeyserSoze999
Member since Dec 2009
10608 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:51 am to
quote:

walk me through IRS email situation...


Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 11:58 am to
quote:

Phony Faux News/Koch Brothers scandal.

Not a smidgeon of corruption.

No evidence, no crime.

Please drive through.


You forgot - "Squeaky clean."
Posted by Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26344 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:08 pm to
Tell you what, if she really did this intentionally, she's not only very smart but a psychic. Here are the emails from 3 years ago when this happened:

7/19/11 Lerner emails Carl Froehlich asking if he can recover lost files on her computer.

7/19/11 Froelich emails Lerner and says they'll ask Diane. "If she can't fix it, nobody can'"

7/20/11 Lerner responds "We can only try, but it may be too late... don't they send them off to hard drive cemetery?"

7/20/11 Email to Lerner.. haven't been able to recover the data. Still trying.

7/20/11 Lerner responds "thanks for the update. I'll keep my fingers crossed"

8/1/11 Email to Lerner: As a last resort, sent your hard drive to CI Forensics

8/5/11 Email to Lerner, the sectors on the hard drive were bad which made your data unrecoverable.

8/6/11 Lerner responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens.

LINK
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
56553 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:13 pm to
quote:

Tell you what, if she really did this intentionally, she's not only very smart but a psychic. Here are the emails from 3 years ago when this happened:

7/19/11 Lerner emails Carl Froehlich asking if he can recover lost files on her computer.

7/19/11 Froelich emails Lerner and says they'll ask Diane. "If she can't fix it, nobody can'"

7/20/11 Lerner responds "We can only try, but it may be too late... don't they send them off to hard drive cemetery?"

7/20/11 Email to Lerner.. haven't been able to recover the data. Still trying.

7/20/11 Lerner responds "thanks for the update. I'll keep my fingers crossed"

8/1/11 Email to Lerner: As a last resort, sent your hard drive to CI Forensics

8/5/11 Email to Lerner, the sectors on the hard drive were bad which made your data unrecoverable.

8/6/11 Lerner responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens.



...and how can we be sure that these are actually emails that were sent...rather than built after the fact? I mean, your whole premise is that there isn't an email server that can validate this communication, right?
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 12:14 pm
Posted by LSUnation78
Northshore
Member since Aug 2012
12073 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:16 pm to
Im not an IT guy, but do sectors on a HD normally just go "bad"?

I was under the impression its relatively easy to recover data from a HD short of it being physically destroying.



Still doesn't explain how the 6 other people are magically missing emails from the same time frame?

Posted by LSUnation78
Northshore
Member since Aug 2012
12073 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:23 pm to
From your link....


quote:

Emails considered an "official record" of the IRS couldn't be deleted and, in fact, needed to also have a hard copy filed. Those emails that constitute an official record are ones that are loosely defined under IRS policy as ones that were "[c]reated or received in the transaction of agency business," "appropriate for preservation as evidence of the government's function or activities," or "valuable because of the information they contain". The letter sent to the senators suggests that it was up to the user to determine what emails met those standards. It's not clear if Lerner had any hard copies of important emails.



So now AT BEST Lerner broke IRS policy by removing and/or not keeping hard copy records of her communications regarding agency business. Clearly stated by IRS policy that emails considered an "official record" of the IRS couldn't be deleted and, in fact, needed to also have a hard copy filed.

This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 12:25 pm
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:26 pm to
quote:

8/6/11 Lerner responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens to seven computers at the same time.


FIFY
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:29 pm to
quote:

7/20/72 Rose Mary Woods responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens.


FIFY
Posted by Jax-Tiger
Port Saint Lucie, FL
Member since Jan 2005
24756 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:40 pm to
quote:

Tell you what, if she really did this intentionally, she's not only very smart but a psychic. Here are the emails from 3 years ago when this happened:

7/19/11 Lerner emails Carl Froehlich asking if he can recover lost files on her computer.

7/19/11 Froelich emails Lerner and says they'll ask Diane. "If she can't fix it, nobody can'"

7/20/11 Lerner responds "We can only try, but it may be too late... don't they send them off to hard drive cemetery?"

7/20/11 Email to Lerner.. haven't been able to recover the data. Still trying.

7/20/11 Lerner responds "thanks for the update. I'll keep my fingers crossed"

8/1/11 Email to Lerner: As a last resort, sent your hard drive to CI Forensics

8/5/11 Email to Lerner, the sectors on the hard drive were bad which made your data unrecoverable.

8/6/11 Lerner responds: Thanks for trying. Sometimes stuff happens.


I'm assuming that the IRS operates like any other big corporation in today's world, at least with respect to how they operate their computer networks.

This type of stuff happens. The hard drive can go bad. However, corporate and government employees have two different ways of storing their data: the local storage, which is the computer's hard drive, and cloud storage, where the data is stored remotely on a secure server. E-mail that is sent to or from the employee is stored on the remote server, although it may also be stored on the employee's hard drive, as well (in case the employee wants to access it offline).

When her hard drive crashed, they probably tried to fix it and couldn't (or it wasn't cost effective). The end solution was that she needed a new hard drive (or new computer). Most likely, she was asking them to fix the hard drive because other items, like pictures and other personal information were on the hard drive and not stored on the network drives. As a general rule, with work computers, you put all your work stuff on the network, and the personal stuff stays on the hard drive. With e-mails, she wouldn't have had a choice, as that is stored on the network servers automatically, where it could be retrieved, if needed.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51679 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

Im not an IT guy, but do sectors on a HD normally just go "bad"?


Not normally, but it does happen every once in a blue moon. From the email chain back and forth with IT, it looks exactly like a conversation I and other IT folks have had on the rare occasion this has happened so for her computer (and hers alone) this corroboration is utterly plausible.

For it happening to 6 others though... there's no way in hell that that sort of things happens to that many folks all at the same time.

Also, I'm still not seeing where attempts have been made to get emails from the DOJ and WH ends that were to/from her.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37112 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:42 pm to
The BEST case scenerio for the O Administration is that the IRS is shown to be beyond incompetent, technically impotent, controlled by out of control people who have no regard for following policy, when the policies are hopelessly outdated and irrelevant.

In a nutshell, e-mails were removed from the server due to size limitations, downloaded to the employee's computer, which then crashed, and the hard drive was found to be "irrecovable" and recycled/destroyed, i.e, gotten rid of.

Combine that trail of events with a policy that says "official" e-mail must be printed, with the determination of "official" being made by the person involved in the e-mail.

I think you have two issues here:

1) Did someone outside the IRS tell the IRS to target the groups?

2) Was there a coverup, or was this simply horrible incompetence?

Anyone that has ever dealt with the IRS knows that horrible incompetence is certainly an option?

Did she not print the e-mails because she didn't want a copy of them, or, cause she was too stupid to know she should have?

Did the IRS not try harder to recover the hard drives because they knew there was stuff on there that might have caused issues, or because their crack IT team really thought that if they could not recover it, the data could not be recovered by anyone?

At some point, the GOP needs to turn the attention away from this singluar issue, and instead, focus on a massive, massive rebuild of the IRS.
Posted by Wolfhound45
Hanging with Chicken in Lurkistan
Member since Nov 2009
120000 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

Jax-Tiger


Decatur is not looking for the truth. Just finding bits and pieces that support the idea that her email is somehow "innocently" irretrievable. Cannot seem to address how the other six individuals being investigated have had their email become "irretrievable" at the same time.
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 12:46 pm
Posted by dante
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
10669 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:44 pm to
I am not an IT guy, but the hard drive is a non-issue. The servers are the issue. The hard drive will only contain data that was stored on her computer but never left via email. We need to stop focusing on the hard drive and ask why their servers were not copied, before deleting every 6 months.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37112 posts
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:44 pm to
quote:

I'm assuming that the IRS operates like any other big corporation in today's world, at least with respect to how they operate their computer networks.


Some of the tech the IRS uses woudl cause the Flintstones to laugh.
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