- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Democracy as Founders established it doesn't work in times like these...
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:12 am
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:12 am
Not my words - Going through the dials yesterday on the drive home and stumbled across Michael Savage stating that when you have a majority of people living dependent on the government in some form or fashion, democracy doesn't work as people simply vote themselves more stuff contributing toward our Country's insolvency.
This is similar to property taxes in Louisiana with the $75k homestead exemption. Growing up in a small town in SW Louisiana, whenever a vote for parks, roads, libraries, schools, etc. came up, there was always an ad in the small town paper urging people to vote YES since it wouldn't cost anything. It was implied that the 'rich' landowners would pay.
So, I began to think about it. If Michael Savage is right, how do you fix it? There doesn't seem to be an easy answer. Not addressing it is foolish as the whole thing eventually will come crashing down on its own weight. It seems you either reform all the entitlements or you only allow people to vote that have skin in the game. Admittedly, as the Federal Gov't has grown, lots more than the stereotype Welfare Queen are on the dole. What would be more tenable solutions to reforming this mess?
This is similar to property taxes in Louisiana with the $75k homestead exemption. Growing up in a small town in SW Louisiana, whenever a vote for parks, roads, libraries, schools, etc. came up, there was always an ad in the small town paper urging people to vote YES since it wouldn't cost anything. It was implied that the 'rich' landowners would pay.
So, I began to think about it. If Michael Savage is right, how do you fix it? There doesn't seem to be an easy answer. Not addressing it is foolish as the whole thing eventually will come crashing down on its own weight. It seems you either reform all the entitlements or you only allow people to vote that have skin in the game. Admittedly, as the Federal Gov't has grown, lots more than the stereotype Welfare Queen are on the dole. What would be more tenable solutions to reforming this mess?
10
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:16 am to Clete Purcel
Founders did not establish a democracy.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:21 am to udtiger
He meant a representative democracy, but the point still stands. One person - one vote.
It would be illogical for one to NOT vote for someone who was going to give them more stuff. It would be illogical for one to vote against taxes for which you didn't have to pay.
How do you fix this?
It would be illogical for one to NOT vote for someone who was going to give them more stuff. It would be illogical for one to vote against taxes for which you didn't have to pay.
How do you fix this?
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:23 am to Clete Purcel
The Founding Fathers Rejected Democracy
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:24 am to Clete Purcel
quote:
How do you fix this?
1) Non-property owners cannot vote in property tax elections;
2) Persons receiving government assistance that they have NOT paid for/contributed to (e.g., Social Security, Medicare, VA) cannot vote in federal elections.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:26 am to Clete Purcel
Well, CP...there is the 'animal farm' version. You might enjoy reading the book "Abundance", which proffers the idea that in the near and high-tech future...both goods and service will be so "ubiquitous"...that a lot of the logistical economic scenarios that we now think are impossible to overcome...will just fade like the morning dew on the grass.
Barring that high-tech bailout...you are right. It'll be societal collapse and reboot. Nothing new under the sun. It all comes and goes.
Barring that high-tech bailout...you are right. It'll be societal collapse and reboot. Nothing new under the sun. It all comes and goes.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:30 am to Clete Purcel
This is an old premise often attributed to some Greek philosopher. As you describe, it just makes common sense. And yes, though we are a representative democracy, IMHO the principle still holds true as it seems to be playing out in Europe and the U.S. It's what happens when too much socialism is introduced and too many people become government dependents. I think a collapse is inevitable at which point we can only hope that people see that light that there is no free lunch.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:32 am to udtiger
I would agree with both of your proposals. Trouble is, the Supreme Court has already deemed #1 unconstitutional.
#2 would be an all out battle that would devolve into the typical name-calling, accusations of racism, evil 1%ers or throwing granny off the cliff.
I know it is idealistic, but I wish we could have honest discussions based on responsible fiscal behavior, accountability and prudence. we're all in this together. If (when) the ship goes down, we're all gonna get wet.
#2 would be an all out battle that would devolve into the typical name-calling, accusations of racism, evil 1%ers or throwing granny off the cliff.
I know it is idealistic, but I wish we could have honest discussions based on responsible fiscal behavior, accountability and prudence. we're all in this together. If (when) the ship goes down, we're all gonna get wet.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:36 am to udtiger
quote:
Founders did not establish a democracy.
Right, which is why we're now having problems it's because we've morphed into a democracy.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:42 am to Clete Purcel
People won't want to hear my solution, but I think it goes way beyond the surface issues and boils down to a mater of the heart. People have lost their way spiritually and because of it, their hearts are consumed with hedonistic endeavors instead of the common good. All types of new legislation can be passed, but unless people's hearts are changed, the results will be the same.
quote:
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:50 am to Clete Purcel
quote:Easy. Tax fairly. Everybody pays their own fair share. Take the budged, divide by the population, there is your bill.
It would be illogical for one to NOT vote for someone who was going to give them more stuff. It would be illogical for one to vote against taxes for which you didn't have to pay.
How do you fix this?
Thus, the more the government spends, the more you pay. Perfect feedback loop.
And since we are all equal citizens, we are all equal participants in funding the government. What could e more fair?
Posted on 4/10/14 at 9:58 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
And since we are all equal citizens, we are all equal participants in funding the government. What could e more fair?
47% of the population doesn't want "fair". They want to stay in the 47%
Posted on 4/10/14 at 10:17 am to Revelator
quote:
People won't want to hear my solution, but I think it goes way beyond the surface issues and boils down to a mater of the heart. People have lost their way spiritually and because of it, their hearts are consumed with hedonistic endeavors instead of the common good. All types of new legislation can be passed, but unless people's hearts are changed, the results will be the same.
I actually somewhat agree with this. Whether some want to ait it or not even though there was seperation of church and state the Constitution was written with religious principles involved.
Church and state was only in there to prevent the gov't from forcing everyone into one religion. It is completly blown way put of proportion today, and morphed into whatever each grpup wants it to mean.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 10:26 am to Revelator
quote:Healthcare is a perfect example of this. People not only take, but demand, things they have no intention of paying for. That greatly harms those that do pay. It's incredibly selfish and greedy.
People have lost their way spiritually and because of it, their hearts are consumed with hedonistic endeavors instead of the common good.
What's ironic, is that they frame "healthcare as a right" as a common good. That's only half of the equation. In reality, its a burden on the few. And the net, is not positive in the end.
This post was edited on 4/10/14 at 10:27 am
Posted on 4/10/14 at 10:30 am to RCDfan1950
I'm going to look for that book, RCD. Thanks.
Looking at collapses throughout history, you'd think we would learn from them.
Looking at collapses throughout history, you'd think we would learn from them.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 10:37 am to Revelator
I agree with you, Rev. Now people are going to misinterpret what you're saying and think you are advocating a theocracy, but you aren't.
Man's heart must change. While the effects of a heart change can be incentivized by government, true heart change cannot be mandated. It comes from within and ultimately from Above (but certainly not by Government).
Man's heart must change. While the effects of a heart change can be incentivized by government, true heart change cannot be mandated. It comes from within and ultimately from Above (but certainly not by Government).
Posted on 4/10/14 at 11:03 am to Revelator
quote:
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams
Says the President who passed the Alien and Sedation Acts.
And Jefferson and Madison disagree with Adam's position.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 11:04 am to Clete Purcel
quote:
I agree with you, Rev. Now people are going to misinterpret what you're saying and think you are advocating a theocracy, but you aren't.
I'm certainly not advocating that. I wouldn't want the state telling me how to worship and I have no desire to see the state tell anyone else how to either.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 11:08 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
Says the President who passed the Alien and Sedation Acts. And Jefferson and Madison disagree with Adam's position.
It doesn't matter to me what he did or if other quotes contradict this one. The fact remains that I think it's truth, and our present woes and future ones will prove this prophetic.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 11:28 am to Clete Purcel
25%-30% income tax across the board. No write offs, no deductions, no bullshite.
EVERYONE pays the 25-30% of what they earn and THAT IS IT.
Of course you would still have the welfare suckers and EBT queens but it would solve a lot of problems and confusion at the same time.
ETA: Abolish the POS IRS, NOW
EVERYONE pays the 25-30% of what they earn and THAT IS IT.
Of course you would still have the welfare suckers and EBT queens but it would solve a lot of problems and confusion at the same time.
ETA: Abolish the POS IRS, NOW
This post was edited on 4/10/14 at 11:31 am
Page 1 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News