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Which of these scenarios would you prefer?
Posted on 3/26/14 at 7:55 am
Posted on 3/26/14 at 7:55 am
Warning: This will be a bit long,sorry.
Scenario #1: Gordon not traded
Current squad:
Holiday/Roberts
Gordon/Rivers/Morrow
Evans/Babbit/Aminu
Davis/Anderson
Ajinca/Withey/Steimsma
Let's say we ditch Roberts/Miller/Smiht/Steimsma/Aminu
That's around 9 Mil in space freed
Holiday/Rivers
Gordon/Morrow
Evans/Babbit
Davis/Anderson
Ajinca/Withey
Use the cap space to sign gortat or hawes(let's say at 7.5Mil)
The rest can be used on a backup wing(s) that can play D+hit 3s.
Holiday/Rivers
Gordon/Morrow/Defense Wing(either here or at SF)
Evans/Babbit
Davis/Anderson/Withey
Hawes or Gortat/Ajinca
We'd be at the cap(or slightly above it) but we'd be a 6th seed at worst
Scenario #2: Gordon traded for a SF(though this could be a SG if tyreke wants to play SF) on a not so great contract(but not as bad) that can play D+hit 3s.
Since the salaries must match we'd have to take back someone else(maybe a solid bruiser type big?)
Smiht/AFA/Roberts/steam are gone under this too.
Holiday/Rivers/Jackson?
Evans/Morrow
Vet SF/Babbit/Miller?
Davis/Anderson/Bruiser
Ajinca/Withey
Holiday+Evans=21.5 Mil
AD+Ryno=14 Mil
Vet SF+Bruiser=10-12Mil
Rivers+Morrow=5 Mil
So that in total=53 Mil
The rest are peanuts basically
We'd have around 6-7Mil in cap space to make a run at a solid big or depth.
The next season those two contracts we took back would probably expire(or get moved) so we'd have anywhere from 10-14 Mil in cap space to add the final piece.
Bonus Scenario #3: If we would've kept Noel
For those out there(you know who you are) that still don't like the jrue trade i made this one:
Vasquez/Roberts
Gordon/Morrow
Aminu/Babbitt
Davis/Anderson/Smiht
Noel/Withey/Ajinca/Steimsma
That would be around 46 Mil if we would've made those same depth signings(because noel ain't playing this year)
With the way AD has played plus the solid play of EG/Vasquez/Rivers/Ajinca we wouldn't be in much better shape really(in relation to wins/losses)
We'd still be picking at around 10 and noel will probably in all likelyhood be an average nba center.
Jrue+Tyreke is far better than that folks
Scenario #1: Gordon not traded
Current squad:
Holiday/Roberts
Gordon/Rivers/Morrow
Evans/Babbit/Aminu
Davis/Anderson
Ajinca/Withey/Steimsma
Let's say we ditch Roberts/Miller/Smiht/Steimsma/Aminu
That's around 9 Mil in space freed
Holiday/Rivers
Gordon/Morrow
Evans/Babbit
Davis/Anderson
Ajinca/Withey
Use the cap space to sign gortat or hawes(let's say at 7.5Mil)
The rest can be used on a backup wing(s) that can play D+hit 3s.
Holiday/Rivers
Gordon/Morrow/Defense Wing(either here or at SF)
Evans/Babbit
Davis/Anderson/Withey
Hawes or Gortat/Ajinca
We'd be at the cap(or slightly above it) but we'd be a 6th seed at worst
Scenario #2: Gordon traded for a SF(though this could be a SG if tyreke wants to play SF) on a not so great contract(but not as bad) that can play D+hit 3s.
Since the salaries must match we'd have to take back someone else(maybe a solid bruiser type big?)
Smiht/AFA/Roberts/steam are gone under this too.
Holiday/Rivers/Jackson?
Evans/Morrow
Vet SF/Babbit/Miller?
Davis/Anderson/Bruiser
Ajinca/Withey
Holiday+Evans=21.5 Mil
AD+Ryno=14 Mil
Vet SF+Bruiser=10-12Mil
Rivers+Morrow=5 Mil
So that in total=53 Mil
The rest are peanuts basically
We'd have around 6-7Mil in cap space to make a run at a solid big or depth.
The next season those two contracts we took back would probably expire(or get moved) so we'd have anywhere from 10-14 Mil in cap space to add the final piece.
Bonus Scenario #3: If we would've kept Noel
For those out there(you know who you are) that still don't like the jrue trade i made this one:
Vasquez/Roberts
Gordon/Morrow
Aminu/Babbitt
Davis/Anderson/Smiht
Noel/Withey/Ajinca/Steimsma
That would be around 46 Mil if we would've made those same depth signings(because noel ain't playing this year)
With the way AD has played plus the solid play of EG/Vasquez/Rivers/Ajinca we wouldn't be in much better shape really(in relation to wins/losses)
We'd still be picking at around 10 and noel will probably in all likelyhood be an average nba center.
Jrue+Tyreke is far better than that folks
Posted on 3/26/14 at 8:38 am to LosLobos111
quote:
Scenario #2: Gordon traded for a SF(though this could be a SG if tyreke wants to play SF) on a not so great contract(but not as bad) that can play D+hit 3s.
Since the salaries must match we'd have to take back someone else(maybe a solid bruiser type big?)
Smiht/AFA/Roberts/steam are gone under this too.
Holiday/Rivers/Jackson?
Evans/Morrow
Vet SF/Babbit/Miller?
Davis/Anderson/Bruiser
Ajinca/Withey
Holiday+Evans=21.5 Mil
AD+Ryno=14 Mil
Vet SF+Bruiser=10-12Mil
Rivers+Morrow=5 Mil
So that in total=53 Mil
The rest are peanuts basically
We'd have around 6-7Mil in cap space to make a run at a solid big or depth.
The next season those two contracts we took back would probably expire(or get moved) so we'd have anywhere from 10-14 Mil in cap space to add the final piece.
My winner. We do not have a coach at this point, so letting the contracts run out is the best option.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 9:02 am to LosLobos111
quote:
That's around 9 Mil in space freed
Where are you getting this cap space from? Here are our numbers for next year if we don't move Gordon and cut just about everyone cuttable
Gordon $14,898,958
Evans $11,265,416
Holiday $10,404,495
Anderson $8,491,500
Davis $5,607,240
Rivers $2,439,840
Hold1 $507,336
Hold2 $507,336
Hold3 $507,336
Hold4 $507,336
Hold5 $507,336
Total $55,644,129
Salary cap is being projected at $63 million which means you get about $7.5 million in cap space. And every guy you keep like Withey, Smith and Roberts eat into that cap space, so I still think we end up with the MLE as our main FA tool.
However, $7.5 million may be enough to get you a Gortat or Hawes, so it is an interesting option. Let's say you can get a decent center, then you only have the $2.7 million Cap Room Exception and minimum contracts to get a SF and fill the roster. That probably means choosing between Morrow and a lower priced SF and saying goodbye to Smith and Aminu, including as S&T options. I think you could probably get all of your current scrubs to agree to come back on minimum deals. The real question is what kind of C can you get for $7.5 million, and what kind of SF can you get for $2.7 million.
Holiday/Roberts/Jackson
Gordon/Rivers
Evans/(Jordan Hamilton?/PJ Tucker?/CJ Miles?)/Babbit
Davis/Anderson
Gortat/Ajinca/Withey
Keep in mind that the cap was projected to go up to about $61 million last year and it ended up only going to $58.5. What the cap increases to will play a big role in whether we have the money to pursue a decent starter or we need to stick to the MLE market.
As far as which scenario I choose, I'm currently assuming we're stuck with using the MLE the next 2 years until Gordon is gone, so if the cap increases enough to give you the opportunity to sign better than MLE talent, you have to take that opportunity, even if it thins out your bench a little next season. Gortat at $7.5 per would be perfect for this team. Low foul rate/decent rebounder/competent enough scorer, and he wants to make fighting legal like in Hockey. He has the kind of toughness this finesse front court needs.
This post was edited on 3/26/14 at 9:14 am
Posted on 3/26/14 at 9:15 am to LosLobos111
quote:
Bonus Scenario #3: If we would've kept Noel For those out there(you know who you are) that still don't like the jrue trade i made this one: Vasquez/Roberts Gordon/Morrow Aminu/Babbitt Davis/Anderson/Smiht Noel/Withey/Ajinca/Steimsma That would be around 46 Mil if we would've made those same depth signings(because noel ain't playing this year) With the way AD has played plus the solid play of EG/Vasquez/Rivers/Ajinca we wouldn't be in much better shape really(in relation to wins/losses) We'd still be picking at around 10 and noel will probably in all likelyhood be an average nba center. Jrue+Tyreke is far better than that folks
If Jrue and Evans are such great, impactful players, why wouldn't we have a much worse record if we didn't get them? If we didn't pick anyone else up we should be 4-5 spots worst (if not more). So picking around 6th or 7th.
Also, Jrue and Evans make over 20M combined. So we would have a max contract we could have offered someone this summer (if we didn't blow it on some other players). We'd also still have Lopez as trade bait (plus Vasquez and Anderson).
If we drafted Smart, had Noel start alongside Davis, we could have went after a couple of mini-max level guys (like Hayward). We could have had a line-up of..
Smart/Vasquez
Gordon/Rivers
Hayward/Babbit
Davis/Anderson
Noel/Lopez
I'd take that line-up.. if we are playing hypotheticals..
Posted on 3/26/14 at 9:18 am to TigerinATL
oops i forgot about the roster holds
If roberts keeps starting his QO goes up to 3Mil(which i don't think we keep him if we have PJ in the wings) Smith i don't think so either.
A guy like hamilton/tucker would be swell
I think Hawes/Sefolosha would be attainable but i wouldn't be opposed to a guy like koufos either(if memphis decides to move on)
Our guys are versatile enough to prevent the bench from being too thin(thankfully)
Dell is also good at finding stopgaps(ajinca/babbitt/roberts)
quote:
Salary cap is being projected at $63 million which means you get about $7.5 million in cap space. And every guy you keep like Withey, Smith and Roberts eat into that cap space, so I still think we end up with the MLE as our main FA tool.
If roberts keeps starting his QO goes up to 3Mil(which i don't think we keep him if we have PJ in the wings) Smith i don't think so either.
A guy like hamilton/tucker would be swell
quote:
However, $7.5 million may be enough to get you a Gortat or Hawes, so it is an interesting option. Let's say you can get a decent center, then you only have the $2.7 million Cap Room Exception and minimum contracts to get a SF and fill the roster. That probably means choosing between Morrow and a lower priced SF and saying goodbye to Smith and Aminu, including as S&T options. I think you could probably get all of your current scrubs to agree to come back on minimum deals. The real question is what kind of C can you get for $7.5 million, and what kind of SF can you get for $2.7 million.
I think Hawes/Sefolosha would be attainable but i wouldn't be opposed to a guy like koufos either(if memphis decides to move on)
quote:
As far as which scenario I choose, I'm currently assuming we're stuck with using the MLE the next 2 years until Gordon is gone, so if the cap increases enough to give you the opportunity to sign better than MLE talent, you have to take that opportunity, even if it thins out your bench a little next season
Our guys are versatile enough to prevent the bench from being too thin(thankfully)
Dell is also good at finding stopgaps(ajinca/babbitt/roberts)
Posted on 3/26/14 at 9:23 am to LosLobos111
quote:
If roberts keeps starting his QO goes up to 3Mil
That's a reflection of the CBA, not Roberts market value around the league. I'd be surprised and dissapointed if we give him the QO if it goes up to $3 million.
quote:
oops i forgot about the roster holds
Yeah, you have to put in rookie minimum deals to get the roster up to 12, although since signing someone adds to the roster, you only need to calculate the holds until you hit 11.
This post was edited on 3/26/14 at 9:27 am
Posted on 3/26/14 at 9:41 am to brmark70816
quote:
If Jrue and Evans are such great, impactful players, why wouldn't we have a much worse record if we didn't get them? If we didn't pick anyone else up we should be 4-5 spots worst (if not more). So picking around 6th or 7th.
Not with the way AD is playing(who could've forseen this?)
You also have to remember that everyone else is tanking(which i doubt we would've anyway)
At best we'd be 8th
quote:
Also, Jrue and Evans make over 20M combined. So we would have a max contract we could have offered someone this summer (if we didn't blow it on some other players). We'd also still have Lopez as trade bait (plus Vasquez and Anderson).
Jrue+Tyreke are better than anyone in free agency not counting lbj/melo/etc(especially with the way tyreke has played)
Ryno's injury basically screwed his trade value this year. I don't think they would've traded him anyway(unless it's a godfather scenario)
quote:
If we drafted Smart, had Noel start alongside Davis, we could have went after a couple of mini-max level guys (like Hayward). We could have had a line-up of..
Smart/Vasquez
Gordon/Rivers
Hayward/Babbit
Davis/Anderson
Noel/Lopez
I'd take that line-up.. if we are playing hypotheticals..
We'd have no shot at smart if we're drafting 8th-9th
I would like hayward but he's staying in UTA most likely
The only mini max guys out there i'd like(if we're following this scenario) are monroe/stephenson/lowry
I don't care for turner either
This post was edited on 3/26/14 at 9:43 am
Posted on 3/26/14 at 9:42 am to brmark70816
How are you still hating on the jrue trade? Jrue was playing very good ball when he was healthy, and Reke has been on a roll lately. Give me 2 guaranteed players over a player with no offensive game and no knees, and overhyped draft.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 10:09 am to brmark70816
quote:
Smart/Vasquez Gordon/Rivers Hayward/Babbit Davis/Anderson Noel/Lopez I'd take that line-up.. if we are playing hypotheticals..
The Twig Towers would never have worked.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 10:21 am to dafif5
Nerlens Noel downvoted my thread
Posted on 3/26/14 at 10:32 am to brmark70816
quote:
brmark70816
Are you ever going to let it go and deal with what we have going forward?
Posted on 3/26/14 at 10:38 am to VOR
I respect him for sticking to his guns
Posted on 3/26/14 at 12:43 pm to LosLobos111
2 if I have to pick. I don't want Spencer Hawes, even though he can shoot and rebound.
Id rather dump Roberts, Steimsma, Smiht, one of Ajinca/Withey.
At this point I'd bring back Aminu and Babbitt as off the bench 3/4 hybrids.
I kick the tires on bigs like Greg Smith, Hill, Blair, Koufos/Mozgov and see if I can nab one of them at a decent price.
I look for wings like a CJ Miles who has some handle, but doesn't need the ball. Wings are thin though, so perhaps a trade. I hope Morrow comes back on a reasonable deal
Holiday/Rivers
Gordon/Evans/Morrow
Evans/wing x/Aminu/Babbitt
Davis/Anderson/Aminu/Babbitt
Big x/Davis/Withey or Ajinca
Add another pf or big wing and see what happens.
Gordon trade obviously changes the picture. If he is dealt, I keep Jackson. If not, I move Jackson for whatever I can get
Id rather dump Roberts, Steimsma, Smiht, one of Ajinca/Withey.
At this point I'd bring back Aminu and Babbitt as off the bench 3/4 hybrids.
I kick the tires on bigs like Greg Smith, Hill, Blair, Koufos/Mozgov and see if I can nab one of them at a decent price.
I look for wings like a CJ Miles who has some handle, but doesn't need the ball. Wings are thin though, so perhaps a trade. I hope Morrow comes back on a reasonable deal
Holiday/Rivers
Gordon/Evans/Morrow
Evans/wing x/Aminu/Babbitt
Davis/Anderson/Aminu/Babbitt
Big x/Davis/Withey or Ajinca
Add another pf or big wing and see what happens.
Gordon trade obviously changes the picture. If he is dealt, I keep Jackson. If not, I move Jackson for whatever I can get
Posted on 3/26/14 at 12:46 pm to corndeaux
Jesus, I keep forgetting about Jackson.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 12:49 pm to VOR
quote:
Are you ever going to let it go and deal with what we have going forward?
Threads like this make it tough. Guys keep making them, trying to say we are better off now or they were the right moves all along. I just don't agree.
Doesn't mean I haven't moved past it. I get that it's all over with..
Posted on 3/26/14 at 1:01 pm to brmark70816
At least in my opinion, I still don't see any of these lineups truly improving our defensive play outside of Jrue, AD, and arguably Rivers. Adding Gortat will help but dropping AFA (the only player on our team who can defend elite 3's) probably wont make anything better. At the same time Aminu needs to go.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 1:23 pm to mriege3
quote:
Adding Gortat will help but dropping AFA (the only player on our team who can defend elite 3's) probably wont make anything better. At the same time Aminu needs to go.
We need 2 starting caliber role players, and unless Demps finds a good trade, it's going to take 2 offseasons to make that happen. The market for mid level 3 and D SFs is pretty decent this offseason compared to centers, so that's what I'd expect them to target if we only have the MLE. Maybe you add an Ariza/Marvin Williams and then trade Gordon for Tyson Chandler, and either resign Chandler the next year if he works out and will take a pay cut, or target Asik. In 2 years you could have
Holiday/Roberts
Evans/Rivers
Ariza/2015 1st
Davis/Anderson
Asik/Withey
That line up has 4 top level defenders and 4 players the opposing defense can't ignore.
Posted on 3/26/14 at 2:26 pm to TigerinATL
Matt Moore with an end of season (playoff hopes) recap.
LINK
Just a taste of the Davis porn
Along with a wrap up
And stuff on Monty
Interesting stuff in there about Davis as a 5 and the choices in front of Benson this summer.
LINK
Just a taste of the Davis porn
quote:
Davis erupted into not only the Pelcians best player, but a legitimate top-15-to-top-10 player in the entire NBA. He is a force of nature. He is a mechanized dinosaur that shoots lasers from his eyes. He is a tree person that swats shots into neighboring kingdoms. He is the thing under the bed that the things under the bed are afraid of.
Along with a wrap up
quote:
Can Jrue Holiday-Eric Gordon- Tyreke Evans work as a three-headed monster in the backcourt? Don't know, too many injuries. Is Al Farouq-Aminu good enough to start for a playoff team with his hustle and defense, despite his inconsistency and offensive struggles? Don't know, too many injuries. Do the Pelicans need a real five next to Davis? Don't know, too many injuries. That's the worst part of this season for New Orleans. Not only was it a monster disappointment in terms of wins, but you don't know whether they're inherently flawed or not.
And stuff on Monty
quote:
I like Monty Williams a lot. I think he's a good man and a good coach that works hard. He's also about as hard on his players as any coach I have ever seen covering this league. Every compliment laced with criticism, every encouragement sounds more like a beratement. I don't think he lost the locker room, the team hung together. But there's just no way their defense should be this bad given his reputation.
I don't think it's necessarily Williams' process, but instead just tweaks and his inflexibility. If he's retained this summer, a different approach is advisable going into next system, schematically or otherwise.
Interesting stuff in there about Davis as a 5 and the choices in front of Benson this summer.
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