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Message
conservatives talking tough on the Ukraine are paper tigers
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:25 pm
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:25 pm
I mean what you gonna do? You gonna go to war over Ukraine? a country that is not in NATO? A country that is divided? The biggest lie about the Ukraine is that somehow Russia is imposing it's will on the people.
The truth is that about half the people want closer ties to Russia and going to war over 50 percent of the population not wanting closer ties is foolish.
Conservatives like talking tough on Ukraine because they know there won't be a war but they think talking tough makes them look good and hurts Obama. We didn't go to War in 1948 and we didn't go to war in 1956 and 1968,
But we did go to war in Korea and Vietnam because we felt that we could win and did win one. Since WWII we only go to war with countries that we think we can beat handily. It worked out okay in the case of Panama and Korea and we don't know yet if it will work out in Iraq and Afghanistan. We sure as hell won't go to war with Russia over Ukraine because we're not so sure we can win. Sure we would be favored but it's no slam dunk and we won't be received as liberators and no one has successfully invaded Russia in over 200 years. Napoleon, the Kaiser and Hitler are proof of that.
So keep talking tough on Ukraine. I do give Reagan credit for going to war with the Soviet Union though he did like killing peasants in Central America to boost his ego.
The truth is that about half the people want closer ties to Russia and going to war over 50 percent of the population not wanting closer ties is foolish.
Conservatives like talking tough on Ukraine because they know there won't be a war but they think talking tough makes them look good and hurts Obama. We didn't go to War in 1948 and we didn't go to war in 1956 and 1968,
But we did go to war in Korea and Vietnam because we felt that we could win and did win one. Since WWII we only go to war with countries that we think we can beat handily. It worked out okay in the case of Panama and Korea and we don't know yet if it will work out in Iraq and Afghanistan. We sure as hell won't go to war with Russia over Ukraine because we're not so sure we can win. Sure we would be favored but it's no slam dunk and we won't be received as liberators and no one has successfully invaded Russia in over 200 years. Napoleon, the Kaiser and Hitler are proof of that.
So keep talking tough on Ukraine. I do give Reagan credit for going to war with the Soviet Union though he did like killing peasants in Central America to boost his ego.
15
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:27 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
3/10
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:27 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
This thread is stupid and makes a lot of strawman arguments
My view is that if our leaders(Obama and Kerry) say something, they should mean it. Otherwise don't say anything at all.
Instead they always talk a tough game but NEVER back it up. This causes other countries and leaders like Putin to view us as weak and our threats as empty.
My issue isn't going to war or attacking Russia. My issue is that our leadership is very weak and is becoming a laughing stock.
My view is that if our leaders(Obama and Kerry) say something, they should mean it. Otherwise don't say anything at all.
Instead they always talk a tough game but NEVER back it up. This causes other countries and leaders like Putin to view us as weak and our threats as empty.
My issue isn't going to war or attacking Russia. My issue is that our leadership is very weak and is becoming a laughing stock.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:29 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
going to war over 50 percent of the population not wanting closer ties is foolish
so Russians' actions there are foolish?
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:29 pm to goldennugget
quote:
My issue isn't going to war or attacking Russia. My issue is that our leadership is very weak and is becoming a laughing stock.
What do they need to do to appear strong? Kick out Russians with student visas and scientists and artists with visas?
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:29 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
Conservatives like talking tough on Ukraine because they know there won't be a war but they think talking tough makes them look good and hurts Obama.
Conservatives aren't the assholes drawing imaginary lines in the sand that Putin just pisses on.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:30 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:31 pm to goldennugget
quote:This. I don't want a war with Russia.
My view is that if our leaders(Obama and Kerry) say something, they should mean it. Otherwise don't say anything at all.
I want Obama and Kerry to shut the frick up.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:31 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
What do they need to do to appear strong? Kick out Russians with student visas and scientists and artists with visas?
How about not drawing lines in the sand or establishing red lines that can't be crossed?
If you are going to draw a line in the sand, mean it. Otherwise, don't say anything at all.
In this situation it would have been best if Obama/Kerry just remained silent.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:31 pm to Stingray
quote:
so Russians' actions there are foolish?
In all honesty I say yes. Russia has deployed way too much muscle. They could get the same thing by not being so overt and heavy handed.
Ukraine will always be within a Russia orbit. Russia just needed to apply tight economic pressure and so some minor bullying actions. No way in hell does Ukraine get in the EU or in NATO. Europe is too afraid of Russia and we shouldn't give a damn.
This is a phony crisis. Russia in the big picture has not gained any geopolitical advantage it didn't already have.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:33 pm to goldennugget
quote:
In this situation it would have been best if Obama/Kerry just remained silent.
In this we both agree.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:33 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
Odd that your fricking savior and the ketchup boy can't seem to shut their pie holes.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:34 pm to Jbird
quote:
Odd that your fricking savior and the ketchup boy can't seem to shut their pie holes.
I agree. They took the bait from Fox News and the neocons.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:34 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
Ukraine will always be within a Russia orbit.
I see you post this over and over.
The simple truth is that thought is an assumption.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:36 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
Ralph Wiggum;dr
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:37 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
I agree. They took the bait from Fox News and the neocons.
Every time I misplace stupid, you find it for me. Thanks
This post was edited on 3/16/14 at 8:37 pm
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:37 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:There is nothing they can do at this point.
What do they need to do to appear strong? Kick out Russians with student visas and scientists and artists with visas?
They threw that away with their previous empty challenges to Egypt and Syria.
To clarify, I didn't want anything to do with those situations either. The problem is that the president made demands and threats and then proceeded to not back any if it up.
That makes him appear weak.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:38 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
In what alternate universe are Kerry and Obama considered to be conserva 
tive?
Ralphie Wiggum, Communist Sympathizer, strikes again.
tive? Ralphie Wiggum, Communist Sympathizer, strikes again.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 8:39 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:WTF, and yet you voted twice for these idiot asses that "took" the bait. You are one brilliant motha.
I agree. They took the bait from Fox News and the neocons.
Posted on 3/16/14 at 9:02 pm to Jbird
God...I agree with Ralph.
I feel dirty.
I feel dirty.
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