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Started By
Message
Is rape part of human nature?
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:32 am
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:32 am
Is rape part of human nature
And if it isn't, how did humans evolve this moral code that tells them what is permissible even if it goes against their natural inclinations?
quote:
“‘That’s probably not a realistic goal just given human nature’ implies that human beings are naturally inclined toward this type of behavior. Victims and advocates have been fighting to demolish the idea that ‘rape is OK’ for thousands of years. To say that it is natural is to say that it is OK, to say that it is somehow an inbred behavior. I stand for myself as a victim and for many others: Sexual assault is not ‘OK,’ it is not natural, and it is not an impulse that an attacker can somehow not control. It is not born with them. It is not a part of us as human beings.” 9
And if it isn't, how did humans evolve this moral code that tells them what is permissible even if it goes against their natural inclinations?
8
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:35 am to Revelator
quote:
how did humans evolve this moral code that tells them what is permissible even if it goes against their natural inclinations?
societal trial and error
same as things like adultery, murder, stealing, etc. these behaviors disrupt the herd and create societal chaos
over time, societies learned to ban/punish these behaviors. often, due to the intermixing of religion and state, the religion of the society adopted this in its canon as divine. later societies adopted the concepts and further instilled them in the society's religion
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:38 am to Revelator
quote:
To say that it is natural is to say that it is OK, to say that it is somehow an inbred behavior. I stand for myself as a victim and for many others: Sexual assault is not ‘OK,’ it is not natural, and it is not an impulse that an attacker can somehow not control. It is not born with them. It is not a part of us as human beings.”
Something being right or wrong doesn't have a ton of bearing on why we want to do it. I think most murderers, rapists and thieves know that what they're doing is wrong (i.e., I don't think that most people who commit those crimes are genuinely sociopaths).
We all have a sort of natural impulse toward doing things that are wrong; the difference is more in impulse control than knowledge of the rightness or wrongness of the action.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:39 am to SlowFlowPro
this quote is strange
in no way am i defending rape, but the concept of "rape" is actually very recent in terms of human society. i mean like 150-200 years. and for centuries prior to that, it was a property crime. the evolution of the concept of rape (amongst other societal mores) is a topic that fascinates me, but it's never an acceptable conversation to have (people think you're defending rapists if you bring up the point and that's not what i'm doing at all)
quote:
Victims and advocates have been fighting to demolish the idea that ‘rape is OK’ for thousands of years.
in no way am i defending rape, but the concept of "rape" is actually very recent in terms of human society. i mean like 150-200 years. and for centuries prior to that, it was a property crime. the evolution of the concept of rape (amongst other societal mores) is a topic that fascinates me, but it's never an acceptable conversation to have (people think you're defending rapists if you bring up the point and that's not what i'm doing at all)
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:39 am to SlowFlowPro
Dude, quit defending rapists.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:43 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
societal trial and error
Homosexuality is anti-procreation and up until recently was considered abnormal behavior, yet it's embraced.
This post was edited on 2/28/14 at 6:44 am
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:44 am to Revelator
But it pretty consistently doesn't ever hurt societies.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:45 am to Revelator
quote:
Homosexuality is anti-procreation and yet it's embraced.
i wouldn't say it's embraced
the USA today is basically at the peak of enlightenment of human history, and most states still ban gay marriage
and we're the peak of the peak. homosexuality is punishable by imprisonment across the globe and death in many countries
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:46 am to SlowFlowPro
Also, this.
But it's been fairly comfortably accepted in past societies.
But it's been fairly comfortably accepted in past societies.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:48 am to FT
quote:
But it pretty consistently doesn't ever hurt societies.
this, as well
back in the times of genesis, it was important for every able-bodied male to have a brood of kids for the survival of the species. that's why the Covenant outlaws homosexuality. we don't exactly face those fears today
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:48 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this quote is strange quote: Victims and advocates have been fighting to demolish the idea that ‘rape is OK’ for thousands of years.
Well I don't think slave masters were castigated or thought it wrong to rape slaves? And I'm pretty sure that barbarians and raiding armies had no qualms about raping conquered foes.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:50 am to Revelator
I don't think anyone in this thread (granted there's three of us) would disagree with that.
Rape wasn't even possible in marriages until recently.
Rape wasn't even possible in marriages until recently.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:58 am to Revelator
Shame on you Rev! 
There are all manner of genetically-inclined behaviors that aren't societally helpful. 'Consent' is a key word in your scenario. And no collateral harm.
One behavior is for the group to force individuals who are different to act in unison with the culture du jour. Or for an elite minority in the group...to do the same.
To each their own, doing no harm to another. Hurt feelings don't count as 'harm'.
There are all manner of genetically-inclined behaviors that aren't societally helpful. 'Consent' is a key word in your scenario. And no collateral harm. One behavior is for the group to force individuals who are different to act in unison with the culture du jour. Or for an elite minority in the group...to do the same.
To each their own, doing no harm to another. Hurt feelings don't count as 'harm'.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 6:59 am to Revelator
quote:
Homosexuality is anti-procreation and up until recently was considered abnormal behavior, yet it's embraced.
What I'd like to understand is whether or not there is a natural societal aversion to homosexuality?
Posted on 2/28/14 at 7:01 am to GumboPot
the fact that the Covenant had to ban it in order to support the population of the human race makes me think that it was more common and accepted than most people would imagine. if it wasn't that common, it wouldn't have been a threat to our species
Posted on 2/28/14 at 7:01 am to GumboPot
Natural? No. Societal? Yes.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 7:12 am to FT
So the current worldwide predominate aversion to homosexuality by homo sapiens is a learned aversion? It's not a phenotype developed through evolution to perpetuate the species?
Posted on 2/28/14 at 7:18 am to RCDfan1950
quote:
Shame on you Rev! There are all manner of genetically-inclined behaviors that aren't societally helpful. 'Consent' is a key word in your scenario. And no collateral harm.
Well RCD, I didn't choose to open this can of worms, our present society has. Things are usually very black and white in my world and always have been. Society has chosen to embrace this anything goes mentality and we will now have to deal with issues like this and more.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 7:28 am to GumboPot
I guess I'd put it this way: If we immediately started raising every single child on earth to believe that homosexuality was normal and not gross or whatever, the vast majority of the aversion would go away.
I'm not recommending that; raise your kids however you want. I'm just saying that yeah, at this point, most people with an aversion to homosexuality have that aversion as a learned behavior.
I'm not recommending that; raise your kids however you want. I'm just saying that yeah, at this point, most people with an aversion to homosexuality have that aversion as a learned behavior.
Posted on 2/28/14 at 7:31 am to GumboPot
The Evolutionary Process can be manifest in an infinite number of natural behaviors, GP. That's the point...for individuals to search out all manner of survival and prosperity advantages.
Given that homosexuality has formerly been societally discouraged as injurious to the survival and prosperity of the group...it may well be that today's (relative) acceptance comes form a human collective psyche that (consciously or sub-consciously) realizes that the world is OVERPOPULATED...and as such...the practice of homosexuality would indeed be advantageous in the survival and prosperity paradigm.
Regardless, the same genes that presuppose homosexuality...will also show up in the vast majority of individuals to have an AVERSION to such. AKA...bigots!
An interesting scientific study would be to seek to understand how BELIEF...affects genes. New genes, that is. Do genes mutate in an individual, in minute ways; or do they stay the same for life? Since belief affects behavior as well as genes...could just be a push and pull between the two.
Given that homosexuality has formerly been societally discouraged as injurious to the survival and prosperity of the group...it may well be that today's (relative) acceptance comes form a human collective psyche that (consciously or sub-consciously) realizes that the world is OVERPOPULATED...and as such...the practice of homosexuality would indeed be advantageous in the survival and prosperity paradigm.
Regardless, the same genes that presuppose homosexuality...will also show up in the vast majority of individuals to have an AVERSION to such. AKA...bigots!
An interesting scientific study would be to seek to understand how BELIEF...affects genes. New genes, that is. Do genes mutate in an individual, in minute ways; or do they stay the same for life? Since belief affects behavior as well as genes...could just be a push and pull between the two.
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