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A question for conservatives.

Posted on 2/9/14 at 8:46 pm
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 8:46 pm
Do you respect the founding fathers?

Do you believe we should follow their intentions?

If so, how do you feel about their belief in not having a standing army? Hence the 2nd amendment?

How do you feel about their not wanting to get into foreign nations affairs? Does it change your opinion about current military operations?
This post was edited on 2/9/14 at 8:55 pm
Posted by baybeefeetz
Member since Sep 2009
31635 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 8:49 pm to
I think most will say they think the constitution should be followed. It's been a while since I went to law school. What does the constitution say about a standing army. I know what the second amendment says.
Posted by Buddy Garrity
Member since Mar 2013
4224 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 8:49 pm to
oh lord

here we go
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73434 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 8:50 pm to
Yes
Yes
We should have a much smaller standing "Army" DOD with a much more robust National Guard to include Air.

Not wanting to get into foreign affairs, depends, will it potentially be a much worse scenario if we don't? My opinion of current operations, hmm...tough to say I deploy a lot and my son is preparing for his first deployment.

Why is this question for conservatives ony?
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
98701 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 8:55 pm to
Yes.

Yes.

Maintaining (by funding) an Army and Navy is an actual Constitutional duty of the government.

Not all wanted to avoid them. Certain alliances are necessary/beneficial. I would like the US to kick the UN out, and close a lot of our overseas bases.
Posted by DByrd2
Fredericksburg, VA
Member since Jun 2008
8962 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 8:57 pm to
Yes.

To a certain extent, outlined in the Constitution, and based on statements in the Declaration of Independence.

No standing Army? Currently, the military is an all volunteer force. Not sure how this is a question that you could legitimately pose. I will say that I believe that the National Guard should be a higher priority than the active duty folks, and that states should decide whether or not to send forth their militia to support wars on the national level. That, in my opinion, would plausibly put an end to constant involvement in foreign matters.

As far as changing my view on military ops, it doesn't because this is a fantasy scenario. Anything else, man?
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:11 pm to
dp
This post was edited on 2/9/14 at 9:12 pm
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:11 pm to
quote:

No standing Army? Currently, the military is an all volunteer force. Not sure how this is a question that you could legitimately pose.



Because the British had a standing army, that was employed around the clock, and they became a tool of the state, instead of ordinary men defending their homeland (which I believe the 2nd amendment was all about).

Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73434 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:13 pm to
So is this whole thing about your feelings on 2nd amendment, and gun ownership?
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:13 pm to
quote:

How do you feel about their not wanting to get into foreign nations affairs? Does it change your opinion about current military operations?


quote:

A further resource for influencing the conduct of European nations toward us, in this respect, would arise from the establishment of a federal navy. There can be no doubt that the continuance of the Union under an efficient government would put it in our power, at a period not very distant, to create a navy which, if it could not vie with those of the great maritime powers, would at least be of respectable weight if thrown into the scale of either of two contending parties


quote:

And if to this consideration we add that of the usefulness of supplies from this country, in the prosecution of military operations in the West Indies, it will readily be perceived that a situation so favorable would enable us to bargain with great advantage for commercial privileges. A price would be set not only upon our friendship, but upon our neutrality. By a steady adherence to the Union we may hope, erelong, to become the arbiter of Europe in America, and to be able to incline the balance of European competitions in this part of the world as our interest may dictate.


quote:

To this great national object, a NAVY, union will contribute in various ways. Every institution will grow and flourish in proportion to the quantity and extent of the means concentred towards its formation and support. A navy of the United States, as it would embrace the resources of all, is an object far less remote than a navy of any single State or partial confederacy, which would only embrace the resources of a single part.


quote:

If we mean to be a commercial people, or even to be secure on our Atlantic side, we must endeavor, as soon as possible, to have a navy. To this purpose there must be dock-yards and arsenals; and for the defense of these, fortifications, and probably garrisons. When a nation has become so powerful by sea that it can protect its dock-yards by its fleets, this supersedes the necessity of garrisons for that purpose; but where naval establishments are in their infancy, moderate garrisons will, in all likelihood, be found an indispensable security against descents for the destruction of the arsenals and dock-yards, and sometimes of the fleet itself.


You should read The Federalist Papers. It has a lot of information on what they thought about foreign affairs, the Rights of individual citizens to bear arms, and providing defense of the nation as a whole. As well as, the rights of States.
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:14 pm to
More to the point: I think it's hypocritical to tout small government while you support the current size of our military.

I think it makes for a healthier nation if the populace is armed and unruly.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69288 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:16 pm to
quote:

Do you respect the founding fathers?
Yes

quote:

Do you believe we should follow their intentions?
Yes

quote:

If so, how do you feel about their belief in not having a standing army? Hence the 2nd amendment?
Were they all in agreement about not having a standing army?

quote:

ow do you feel about their not wanting to get into foreign nations affairs? Does it change your opinion about current military operations?
Different time period. America was an irrelevant nation until the mid 19th century.
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:16 pm to
quote:

You should read The Federalist Papers.



I have. Wasn't impressed. I was impressed with Lysander Spooner's the "Highwayman." Ignoring that, he had the balls to take on a government monoloy.
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:22 pm to
quote:

So is this whole thing about your feelings on 2nd amendment, and gun ownership?



Hardly. If you want a gun, then have a gun. I don't care.

I'm asking if you think we should follow the founding fathers wishes, wouldn't it make more sense to support decreasing the military while protecting the individuals right to bear arms?

To me, it's hypocritical to claim to support the constitution and support the make-up and scope of our current military.
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:25 pm to
quote:

Lysander Spooner's


Impractical, and impossible to apply individualism in a society as a whole. While there are many things he said that should hold true for individuals, it can't be applied in the same way enmass.
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73434 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:26 pm to
quote:

To me, it's hypocritical to claim to support the constitution and support the make-up and scope of our current military.
Um okay.
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:27 pm to
quote:

I'm asking if you think we should follow the founding fathers wishes, wouldn't it make more sense to support decreasing the military while protecting the individuals right to bear arms?


I think most conservatives would agree with this.

Posted by MaroonWhite
48 61 69 6c 20 53 74 61 74 65 21
Member since Oct 2012
3691 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:28 pm to
quote:

If so, how do you feel about their belief in not having a standing army? Hence the 2nd amendment?


Despite your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, it is obvious that the Constitution provides for a standing army based on Article II, Section II:

The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.


Notice that it distinguishes between "the Army and Navy of the United States" and "the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States".
Posted by Patrick O Rly
y u do dis?
Member since Aug 2011
41187 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:31 pm to
quote:

Impractical, and impossible to apply individualism in a society as a whole.



We apply it everywhere except for the government.

Don't like a church? You leave and you are no longer under an obligation to support them financially. They won't follow you around, claiming to steal from you for your own good.

quote:

While there are many things he said that should hold true for individuals, it can't be applied in the same way enmass.



Why? Because it's what you grew up with? If something isn't working, it's not worth supporting financially. Why should I support monopolies with these people who fail time and time again?
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 2/9/14 at 9:37 pm to
quote:

We apply it everywhere except for the government.


Umm. Exactly. You can't apply it to Gov't. Gov't is needed for certain functions. A necessary evil. To do away with Gov't and leave every individual to be solely responsible for themselves, would certainly lead to conquest of the very citizens who you think shouldn't have to answer to anyone but themselves.

quote:

Why should I support monopolies with these people who fail time and time again?


You shouldn't. That's why you have the power to run for office, or elect those you share views with, to change things. Unfortunately, the populace is fat, lazy, and ignorant on what the country was founded on and things are going to have to get worse, before they can get better now. Imho.
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