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Who is to blame for this alleged disappearance of the middle class?

Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:31 pm
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162231 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:31 pm
Let's just say for the sake of argument that you accept the premise that the middle class is shrinking and we're being put into a 2 tier class system of rich and poor with a slowly diminishing middle class.

One school of thought is to blame the government since the middle class burdens a pretty large share of the tax revenue pie. Is there some truth to that? Perhaps.

But I do think that financial institutions are probably part of the problem as well. The practice of extending credit to people that aren't really credit worthy creates a cycle of "survival" style cost of living with the constant high interest debt payments that need to be made just to keep current. Let's face it, most college students don't know how to manage money well. Yet any of them can get a credit card as a freshman despite not having any proof of being credit worthy. A lot of these same people get burdened with student loan payments and the like. Then you have a class of educated people (although perhaps not the most financially savvy) that are stuck in a cycle of debt that they can never come out from unless they can achieve a high income to conquer that debt.

People blame the government for the financial collapse all the time. But it seems as if financial institutions had as much of an impact as the government if not more. The very nature of the banking industry is to hope for people to manage credit as poorly as possible so they can get the most out of them in terms of interest and penalties. An unchecked private banking industry is certainly not a good thing for the economy. They have a vested interest in the poor staying where they are IMO.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:33 pm to
Women

Or the men that passed the 19th amendmenrt to get votes.
This post was edited on 1/29/14 at 5:34 pm
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162231 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:34 pm to
Not sure if serious but if you are please elaborate
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73447 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:34 pm to
Well said you crazy fricking conservative you!
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162231 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:34 pm to
How did you know I was crazy?
Posted by BlackHelicopterPilot
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
52833 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:34 pm to
Is the middle FALLING to the low? Or, is the middle CLIMBING to the high?


But, to answer your question...where one is is the sum total of the decisions one has made (extended to succeeding generations). So, one is to blame for where one is.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162231 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:36 pm to
quote:


But, to answer your question...where one is is the sum total of the decisions one has made (extended to succeeding generations). So, one is to blame for where one is.


Well some people don't have the mental capacity or the guidance to make certain decisions.

It's not that they're trying to frick up. They're easily taken advantage of due to poor education or intellect.
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73447 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:36 pm to
Beucause you said you were conservative.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
260876 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:36 pm to
quote:


Is the middle FALLING to the low? Or, is the middle CLIMBING to the high?


I'm thinking it's just been redefined.
Posted by Antonio Moss
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
48320 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:37 pm to
A multitude of factors including an enormous government liability burden on the middle class, changes in lending practices (both government induced and non-government induced), expansion of college education opportunities, and a culture of consumption and irresponsibility.


That said, it's still ridiculously easy to become a middle class citizen and move into the upper-middle class in this country.
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73447 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:37 pm to
quote:

Well some people don't have the mental capacity or the guidance to make certain decisions.

It's not that they're trying to frick up. They're easily taken advantage of due to poor education or intellect.
So fricking what.
Posted by BlackHelicopterPilot
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
52833 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:37 pm to
quote:

Well some people don't have the mental capacity or the guidance to make certain decisions


So?

Is it not still there "responsibility"?

I'm not talking about truly mentally retarded, etc.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
78700 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:37 pm to
Where does Government end and the banking industry begin, again?
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162231 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:38 pm to
quote:

Is the middle FALLING to the low? Or, is the middle CLIMBING to the high?

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head but the sentiment seems to be that more people are being pushed to the lower edge of the middle class than the higher edge. Of course middle class is difficult to define since it's essentially everyone who is neither poor nor rich.
Posted by SmackoverHawg
Member since Oct 2011
27350 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:38 pm to
Are the days gone when an unskilled laborer can get a job in a local plant after pissing away high school and make a decent living? For the most part, yes. Can someone still easily acquire the skills needed to get a decent job if they put forth an effort? YES!!!
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162231 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:39 pm to
quote:


So?

Is it not still there "responsibility"?

I'm not talking about truly mentally retarded, etc.


I'm sure banks have made loans to the mentally retarded before.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:39 pm to
quote:

I'm not talking about truly mentally retarded, etc.



I don't know for sure but I'm gonna guess they don't lines of credit from banks.

Now if someone who isn't mentally retarded then frick em if they can't handle their own money.
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
162231 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:40 pm to
quote:

Where does Government end and the banking industry begin, again?


Well the banks have a lot of political clout but they're certainly not the government.

The government is controlled by the banks more than the converse if you ask me.
Posted by BlackHelicopterPilot
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
52833 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:41 pm to
quote:

Are the days gone when an unskilled laborer can get a job in a local plant after pissing away high school and make a decent living? For the most part, yes. Can someone still easily acquire the skills needed to get a decent job if they put forth an effort? YES!!!


I've told the story of my families climb from abject poverty, zero HS education. So, I won't bore anyone again.

But, just know that I and by siblings are living evidence that if someone decides to progress GENERATIONALLY (sacrifice today for family's tomorrow) it is not only possible...but, very likely to succeed in just 3 generations.
Posted by Lsupimp
Ersatz Amerika-97.6% phony & fake
Member since Nov 2003
78700 posts
Posted on 1/29/14 at 5:41 pm to
quote:

I'm sure banks have made loans to the mentally retarded before.


This. And worse. Every single day until 2008.
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