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Why does it seem like liberalism always wins in the end?

Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:38 am
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69306 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:38 am
If you study the history of this country, all momentous points were when great changed happened:

It was "liberals" that wanted independence from Britain.

It was "liberals" who abolished the institution of slavery.

New deal, civil rights, worker rights, etc.

Is history basically not proof that liberalism always wins? What great conservative causes have won?
Posted by C
Houston
Member since Dec 2007
27824 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:44 am to
I think you're applying a liberal definition to what these groups are. Well done.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69306 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:50 am to
Conservatism: Conservatism as a political and social philosophy promotes retaining traditional social institutions.

Liberalism:
Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
9105 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 12:51 am to
C'mon, HHM, you know classical liberalism and today's Liberalism have next to nothing in common, right?

Classical liberals are for the supremacy of the individual and a very limited government. Today's Liberals abhor those principles.

Posted by Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26344 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 1:42 am to
Because conservative = status quo by definition. If things change under a conservative, it's moving back. Luckily they lose more times than not at attempting to do so.
Posted by lsutothetop
TigerDroppings Elite
Member since Jul 2008
11323 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:11 am to
your trolling shtick is hella old
Posted by Iona Fan Man
Member since Jan 2006
27462 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:23 am to
liberal is the gas pedal, conservative is the brake

full on gas and you will lose control in turns and hit walls...conservatives just try to slow down during risky situations......when the lights green and there's no traffic....conservatives don't really try to stop anything...they may just say...make sure your seat belts fastened.

Posted by Hooligan's Ghost
Member since Jul 2013
5189 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:36 am to
or put a different way, why is modern day liberalism worldwide more closely associated with communism and unbridled socialism and conservatism in the U S identifies with Freedom and Liberty. Liberalism identifies with, no worships the State. "Why" does that win? Good question.
Posted by Sentrius
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
64757 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:45 am to
quote:

Because conservative = status quo by definition.


That's not what conservatism is. At least on the fiscal side of things.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69306 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:48 am to
quote:

That's not what conservatism is. At least on the fiscal side of things.
Vegas Bengal presents an incredibly simplistic (and wrong) definition of what conservatism and liberalism is.
Posted by shinerfan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
22342 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:54 am to
Change will always eventually win out over the status quo but which change will it be? Conservative voices are crucial in vetting and discarding harebrained ideas.


And our modern American political glossary doesn't hold up well under examination. The real divide lies between urban and rural lifestyles, values and individual economic realities.
Posted by Sentrius
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
64757 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 2:54 am to
quote:

C'mon, HHM, you know classical liberalism and today's Liberalism have next to nothing in common, right?

Classical liberals are for the supremacy of the individual and a very limited government. Today's Liberals abhor those principles.


Correct.

Liberals have pretty much destroyed the meaning of the word liberal and molded it into its present meaning today.

Were it still in use, I would be a classical liberal but instead, I'm a libertarian in today's time.
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
90638 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 5:59 am to
Conservatives seem to win more often on different issues, usually Constitutional and fiscal ones. For example: Gun control. Conservatives win that battle a lot.

The examples you used for the most part are more social issues, which most of the time liberals are on the right side of. Liberals lose when it comes to business policy and fiscal issues.

This is historically. The political climate today has radically changed what each side stands for compared to in the past. We have not seen it long enough to be able to tell who will win more in the future. It's very likely the left wing extremism we see today could be too much, and push many people the opposite direction to the far right for awhile. As least for any informed voter...the leeches will keep voting D with their hand out for a free lunch.
Posted by 20MuleTeam
West Hartford
Member since Sep 2012
3862 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 6:27 am to
Because its more humane, wiser and Christian.
Posted by CITWTT
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
31765 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 6:39 am to
quote:

It was "liberals" who abolished the institution of slavery.



Nope it was Christians in England and America that worked diligently to abolish slavery, the Brits just did it sooner than us.


ETA look up the name William Wilberforce, along with watching the movie Amazing Grace, it might teach you a small bit about the history involved to abolition efforts. America at a certain point joined England in stopping the slave trade on the high seas, and it was well before the civil war when you consider the era.
This post was edited on 1/12/14 at 8:16 am
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
67964 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 7:21 am to
quote:

liberal is the gas pedal, conservative is the brake



I think our gas pedal is stuck and the brakes are worn out.
Posted by unbeWEAVEable
The Golf Board Godfather
Member since Apr 2010
13637 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 7:46 am to
quote:

It was "liberals" that wanted independence from Britain.


Since when did "change" apply only to liberals? "Progressiveism", yes. "Change, no".

And it was radicals that wanted independence from Britain, not "liberals". You know why? Cause the British government was intervening too much into their lives...sound familiar...

Guess what happened once we gained independence (an act of radicalism)? We created a government. All that signing and deliberating at the beginning - an act of reactionism.

I can keep going.
Posted by Hooligan's Ghost
Member since Jul 2013
5189 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 7:47 am to
Conservatives want to end the status quo; radically. They want big change. They want to end the generational dependency on the welfare state.

Conservatives believe that the more self sufficient the populace is, the better off the country is.

Conservatives actually believe that taxing a dollar from someone, sending it to Washington, having it siphoned off at every level of bureaucracy and then sending it back down to his neighbor (deserving or not) to be siphoned off some more on the way down and now by the state governments too sometimes, is a terribly inefficient way to do...anything, but that is the system that Democrats, especially Liberals wholeheartedly endorse and worship.

And if you want to criticize Conservatives on social issues; for defending rights of the unborn, but not snail darter rights and tree rights,ok. And if you want to criticize Conservatives because they promote traditional families (horrors), fine.

There is no good defense of the increasing dependency on government and the advocacy thereof by liberals, which brings us back to the original point, why does this side win?
Posted by CarrolltonTiger
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
50291 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 8:13 am to
quote:

If things change under a conservative, it's moving back.


That would be reactionary, by definition.

Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
67964 posts
Posted on 1/12/14 at 8:18 am to
quote:

That would be reactionary, by definition.


correct, and progressives get the benefit that the word progress is associated with "getting better". It really means moving toward.

The question should be, toward what? Is what you are moving toward really better than where you are, or where your were?

It is possible to progress to a worse situation, and reaction to a better one.
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