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Who was a better coach while at LSU, Dale Brown or Charlie Mac?

Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:42 am
Posted by lsuallsportsfan
WBR Parish
Member since Jun 2013
333 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:42 am
I know some will think this is too much "apples and oranges" but those who have thoughts please share to help setttle dispute with my brother in law.
The question is, who was the better coach (i.e. wins, run the program, reflect well for LSU, know when to leave, recruit, game coach, develop talent)for LSU?

The facts as we see them are:

CM- 137-59 (70%) as HC 17 years, asst coach 1953-61. 60-41 (60%) in SEC, 7-6 bowls, one SEC champ, one losing record (forfeits incl) won 55% last 6 years, inherited very good team/tradition, stayed too long

DB- 448-301 (60%) in 25 years, 238-200 in SEC (54%) 4 sec reg season champs, one sec trny, 13 NCAA's but only 4 times made it past round 2, two probations, one minor, one major, last 4 years had losing record, inherited 10-16 team with little tradition. But stayed too long

IMHO CM is at least as good as Dale for LSU (brother in law says DB MUCH better). My reasons are DB did build a program, but underachived most years and got us on probation 2 times, and left us in bad shape. CM hardly beat Bama, but no one could then and he never had us in trouble with NCAA. CM winning % better in SEC and overall. To the non-LSU world (which I think needs to be considered) Brown's reputation was as much positive as negative. I am thankful for both and appreciate they both did a lot of very good things for LSU, glad they both were here. BUT think Brown gets too much credit and CM not enough. Fire away, am I wrong?
Posted by lsu2006
BR
Member since Feb 2004
39980 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:43 am to
Dale. Did we ever finish in the top 5 with Cholly Mac?
Posted by aroussel3Tigers
Member since Mar 2009
4905 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:48 am to
Dale
Posted by ramchallenge
Member since Nov 2009
2993 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:58 am to
Daddy Dale for basketball and Charlie Mac for football... why make a comparison of the two???? DUH
Posted by TimT
Tiger Stadium on Saturday Nights
Member since Feb 2006
716 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:59 am to
Dale
Posted by cas4t
Member since Jan 2010
70916 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:00 pm to
Dale no doubt
Posted by MRTigerFan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
4186 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:03 pm to
Sorry but your BIL is correct. It's Dale
Posted by LSUANDY25
Frisco
Member since Dec 2012
3087 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:04 pm to
I had no idea CM won 70% of his games as a head coach here.
But id still say Brown was the better of the 2. He put us on on the map in BB and did beat Kentucky vs Mac struggling with Phyllis.
2 final fours for DM, one with an 11 seed.
This post was edited on 1/8/14 at 12:11 pm
Posted by LSU03
Tiger Mecca (aka Baton Rouge)
Member since Dec 2003
514 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:34 pm to
I love that in your post you include bowl appearances for Cholly Mac but leave out the 2 Final Four appearances for Dale Brown.

I appreciate Charlie Mac's service, and I even think he gets an unfair rap, but Dale Brown put LSU basketball on the map and is the greatest basketball coach in LSU history... CM might be either 3rd or 4th best in football, depending on criteria used.

Buy your brother in law a drink in atonement for your wrongness.
Posted by htownjeep
Republic of Texas
Member since Jun 2005
7612 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:35 pm to
Skip
Posted by Tiger in NY
Neptune Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2003
30362 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

Did we ever finish in the top 5 with Cholly Mac?


1969 was a NC caliber football team that got screwed over. They were equal to Brown's best bball team, easily.

MAC's teams might have ended up with higher ranking had the AP not been totally skewed to the Big Ten, Penn State, and ND
This post was edited on 1/8/14 at 12:39 pm
Posted by lsu2006
BR
Member since Feb 2004
39980 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

1969 was a NC caliber football team that got screwed over

Very true
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35391 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:20 pm to
Better coach or more success?


Cholly was a better coach, Dale was a spectator to some of the best college talent to share a court at one time
Posted by airbornetiger
SATX
Member since Sep 2006
1416 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:39 pm to
Dale.

LSU was ALWAYS a football school, but it was more so when Dale was hired. He did what he did on his own shoulders--especially in the early years.

Posted by dante
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
10669 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:42 pm to
I respect both coaches but LSU was never considered more than a regional power under Charlie Mac, Daddy Dale made LSU a national power, before bringing them back to mediocrity.
Posted by airbornetiger
SATX
Member since Sep 2006
1416 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:48 pm to
quote:

1969 was a NC caliber football team that got screwed over


1981 was a NC caliber bball team that got screwed over
Posted by CajunPhil
Chimes
Member since Aug 2013
651 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:01 pm to

Dale was a great coach who brought Tiger Stadium excitement to the PMAC, but there should be no knock on Chollie Mac.

The in-conference schedules that Mac faced included Fla, Alabama, Ole Miss (when they were consistently good), Tennessee, Auburn,.. as would be expected. The non-conference schedules included none of the directional schools or schools such as Kent or Fuhrman who didn't have the budgets or recruiting to compete. LSU played non-conference games with Texas A&M (ranked), Colorado (ranked), Oregon, Wisconsin, Notre Dame (#1), Southern Cal. (#1),Indiana, Baylor, Miami, TCU, Ga. Tech (ranked), South Carolina (ranked), Florida Sate (ranked), year after year. The only minor school on Coach Mac's schedule was Un. of Pacific in 1970 and 1972. The current schedules which bring in Kent, Furman, ULLNeLa, ULL-SwLa, North Texas, Towson, UAB,Fresno, Appalachian, McNeese etc. did not happen when Mac coached ( or even under Arnsberger, Archer, or Hallman).
Coach Mac's 70% win rate against legit competition is a lot more impressive than Saban's 75% against a reduced schedule. I like Les, his 2011 season was legit, I think he's a good coach, but the jury is not in yet on comparisons with Mac.
Posted by ccomeaux
LA
Member since Jan 2010
8184 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:03 pm to
Dale had real opprotunity to win a NCAA tourney with Shaq, Jackson, et al on the same team. Give Johnny Jones Shaq and Chris Jackson and see what he could do.

Cholly Mac gets my vote.
Posted by GeorgeWest
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2013
13085 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:21 pm to
1. Dale Brown was a greater head MBB coach than Cholly Mac was a head fball coach at LSU. Dale Brown put LSU MBB on the national map. I wish he would have retired a few years earlier, but that decision was his not mine.

2. Les Miles is far superior as LSU HC to what Mac was. And during a period when winning against SEC competition is harder, imo. If Les chooses ot coach 'til he is in his upper 60's as I suspect, there will be NO DOUBT that Les is LSU's greatest fball HC. I think he is already, but the day is coming when ALL LSU fans will acknowledge that fact.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89545 posts
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:24 pm to
quote:

BUT think Brown gets too much credit and CM not enough.


Dale Brown did a wonderful job with the program - just underperformed in the Final 4.

The people who will slam Mac - I have a trivia question:

What is the significance of 6,3,6,0,7,7,0,18,6,0,0 - in LSU history?

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