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Started By
Message
Who was a better coach while at LSU, Dale Brown or Charlie Mac?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:42 am
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:42 am
I know some will think this is too much "apples and oranges" but those who have thoughts please share to help setttle dispute with my brother in law.
The question is, who was the better coach (i.e. wins, run the program, reflect well for LSU, know when to leave, recruit, game coach, develop talent)for LSU?
The facts as we see them are:
CM- 137-59 (70%) as HC 17 years, asst coach 1953-61. 60-41 (60%) in SEC, 7-6 bowls, one SEC champ, one losing record (forfeits incl) won 55% last 6 years, inherited very good team/tradition, stayed too long
DB- 448-301 (60%) in 25 years, 238-200 in SEC (54%) 4 sec reg season champs, one sec trny, 13 NCAA's but only 4 times made it past round 2, two probations, one minor, one major, last 4 years had losing record, inherited 10-16 team with little tradition. But stayed too long
IMHO CM is at least as good as Dale for LSU (brother in law says DB MUCH better). My reasons are DB did build a program, but underachived most years and got us on probation 2 times, and left us in bad shape. CM hardly beat Bama, but no one could then and he never had us in trouble with NCAA. CM winning % better in SEC and overall. To the non-LSU world (which I think needs to be considered) Brown's reputation was as much positive as negative. I am thankful for both and appreciate they both did a lot of very good things for LSU, glad they both were here. BUT think Brown gets too much credit and CM not enough. Fire away, am I wrong?
The question is, who was the better coach (i.e. wins, run the program, reflect well for LSU, know when to leave, recruit, game coach, develop talent)for LSU?
The facts as we see them are:
CM- 137-59 (70%) as HC 17 years, asst coach 1953-61. 60-41 (60%) in SEC, 7-6 bowls, one SEC champ, one losing record (forfeits incl) won 55% last 6 years, inherited very good team/tradition, stayed too long
DB- 448-301 (60%) in 25 years, 238-200 in SEC (54%) 4 sec reg season champs, one sec trny, 13 NCAA's but only 4 times made it past round 2, two probations, one minor, one major, last 4 years had losing record, inherited 10-16 team with little tradition. But stayed too long
IMHO CM is at least as good as Dale for LSU (brother in law says DB MUCH better). My reasons are DB did build a program, but underachived most years and got us on probation 2 times, and left us in bad shape. CM hardly beat Bama, but no one could then and he never had us in trouble with NCAA. CM winning % better in SEC and overall. To the non-LSU world (which I think needs to be considered) Brown's reputation was as much positive as negative. I am thankful for both and appreciate they both did a lot of very good things for LSU, glad they both were here. BUT think Brown gets too much credit and CM not enough. Fire away, am I wrong?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:43 am to lsuallsportsfan
Dale. Did we ever finish in the top 5 with Cholly Mac?
Posted on 1/8/14 at 11:58 am to aroussel3Tigers
Daddy Dale for basketball and Charlie Mac for football... why make a comparison of the two???? DUH
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:03 pm to lsuallsportsfan
Sorry but your BIL is correct. It's Dale
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:04 pm to lsuallsportsfan
I had no idea CM won 70% of his games as a head coach here.
But id still say Brown was the better of the 2. He put us on on the map in BB and did beat Kentucky vs Mac struggling with Phyllis.
2 final fours for DM, one with an 11 seed.
But id still say Brown was the better of the 2. He put us on on the map in BB and did beat Kentucky vs Mac struggling with Phyllis.
2 final fours for DM, one with an 11 seed.
This post was edited on 1/8/14 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:34 pm to lsuallsportsfan
I love that in your post you include bowl appearances for Cholly Mac but leave out the 2 Final Four appearances for Dale Brown.
I appreciate Charlie Mac's service, and I even think he gets an unfair rap, but Dale Brown put LSU basketball on the map and is the greatest basketball coach in LSU history... CM might be either 3rd or 4th best in football, depending on criteria used.
Buy your brother in law a drink in atonement for your wrongness.
I appreciate Charlie Mac's service, and I even think he gets an unfair rap, but Dale Brown put LSU basketball on the map and is the greatest basketball coach in LSU history... CM might be either 3rd or 4th best in football, depending on criteria used.
Buy your brother in law a drink in atonement for your wrongness.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 12:36 pm to lsu2006
quote:
Did we ever finish in the top 5 with Cholly Mac?
1969 was a NC caliber football team that got screwed over. They were equal to Brown's best bball team, easily.
MAC's teams might have ended up with higher ranking had the AP not been totally skewed to the Big Ten, Penn State, and ND
This post was edited on 1/8/14 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:18 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
1969 was a NC caliber football team that got screwed over
Very true
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:20 pm to lsuallsportsfan
Better coach or more success?
Cholly was a better coach, Dale was a spectator to some of the best college talent to share a court at one time
Cholly was a better coach, Dale was a spectator to some of the best college talent to share a court at one time
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:39 pm to lsuallsportsfan
Dale.
LSU was ALWAYS a football school, but it was more so when Dale was hired. He did what he did on his own shoulders--especially in the early years.
LSU was ALWAYS a football school, but it was more so when Dale was hired. He did what he did on his own shoulders--especially in the early years.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:42 pm to lsuallsportsfan
I respect both coaches but LSU was never considered more than a regional power under Charlie Mac, Daddy Dale made LSU a national power, before bringing them back to mediocrity.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 1:48 pm to lsu2006
quote:
1969 was a NC caliber football team that got screwed over
1981 was a NC caliber bball team that got screwed over
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:01 pm to htownjeep
Dale was a great coach who brought Tiger Stadium excitement to the PMAC, but there should be no knock on Chollie Mac.
The in-conference schedules that Mac faced included Fla, Alabama, Ole Miss (when they were consistently good), Tennessee, Auburn,.. as would be expected. The non-conference schedules included none of the directional schools or schools such as Kent or Fuhrman who didn't have the budgets or recruiting to compete. LSU played non-conference games with Texas A&M (ranked), Colorado (ranked), Oregon, Wisconsin, Notre Dame (#1), Southern Cal. (#1),Indiana, Baylor, Miami, TCU, Ga. Tech (ranked), South Carolina (ranked), Florida Sate (ranked), year after year. The only minor school on Coach Mac's schedule was Un. of Pacific in 1970 and 1972. The current schedules which bring in Kent, Furman, ULLNeLa, ULL-SwLa, North Texas, Towson, UAB,Fresno, Appalachian, McNeese etc. did not happen when Mac coached ( or even under Arnsberger, Archer, or Hallman).
Coach Mac's 70% win rate against legit competition is a lot more impressive than Saban's 75% against a reduced schedule. I like Les, his 2011 season was legit, I think he's a good coach, but the jury is not in yet on comparisons with Mac.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:03 pm to lsuallsportsfan
Dale had real opprotunity to win a NCAA tourney with Shaq, Jackson, et al on the same team. Give Johnny Jones Shaq and Chris Jackson and see what he could do.
Cholly Mac gets my vote.
Cholly Mac gets my vote.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:21 pm to CajunPhil
1. Dale Brown was a greater head MBB coach than Cholly Mac was a head fball coach at LSU. Dale Brown put LSU MBB on the national map. I wish he would have retired a few years earlier, but that decision was his not mine.
2. Les Miles is far superior as LSU HC to what Mac was. And during a period when winning against SEC competition is harder, imo. If Les chooses ot coach 'til he is in his upper 60's as I suspect, there will be NO DOUBT that Les is LSU's greatest fball HC. I think he is already, but the day is coming when ALL LSU fans will acknowledge that fact.
2. Les Miles is far superior as LSU HC to what Mac was. And during a period when winning against SEC competition is harder, imo. If Les chooses ot coach 'til he is in his upper 60's as I suspect, there will be NO DOUBT that Les is LSU's greatest fball HC. I think he is already, but the day is coming when ALL LSU fans will acknowledge that fact.
Posted on 1/8/14 at 2:24 pm to lsuallsportsfan
quote:
BUT think Brown gets too much credit and CM not enough.
Dale Brown did a wonderful job with the program - just underperformed in the Final 4.
The people who will slam Mac - I have a trivia question:
What is the significance of 6,3,6,0,7,7,0,18,6,0,0 - in LSU history?
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