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SI: Texas should worry about a Tennessee-like aftermath after ousting Mack Brown
Posted on 12/19/13 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 12/19/13 at 1:51 pm
quote:
Does the Mack Brown saga remind you at all of what happened with Phillip Fulmer at Tennessee? Successful, long-tenured coaches in competitive conferences who found new up-and-comers edging them out of programs they once led to national championships? If so, are there enough similarities that Texas should be worried about not recovering for a long time, which has been the case with the Volunteers?
-- Luke Martinez, Tulare, Calif.
As I wrote over the weekend, Brown's career arc is sadly quite common among successful college coaches. Very few go out on top. Most stay too long. But Fulmer is a pretty good comparison. Both had similar tenures (Fulmer coached 17 seasons, Brown 16), records (Fulmer went 152-52, Brown 158-47) and accomplishments (one national title and two conference titles for both). While Fulmer's descent into mediocrity was more gradual, Tennessee pulled the plug just a year after the Vols played in the SEC title game. However, their last four seasons overall were very comparable, save for the very end. Brown went 5-7, 8-5, 9-4 and 8-4, respectively. Fulmer went 5-6, 9-4, 10-4 and 5-7. In both cases, it was obvious that the programs had lost their way, the fan bases had lost confidence and -- regardless of Brown or Fulmer's greater achievements -- it was time for a change.
Should Texas worry about a similar aftermath? Absolutely. That's why so much is riding on Patterson's hire. Then-Tennessee AD Mike Hamilton surveyed the scene and decided that 33-year-old Lane Kiffin was the man to resurrect the Vols, with the help of his all-star cast of assistants. Kiffin clearly wasn't ready, though Tennessee likely wouldn't have sunk to its current depths had Kiffin hung around for more than one season, and had Hamilton not whiffed on his first several choices to replace Kiffin and settled on the woefully unqualified Dooley. Texas has more of everything to offer than Tennessee did -- money, recruiting talent, its own TV network -- and should attract better candidates. Still, it's a crapshoot. Short of Saban or Urban Meyer (or Harbaugh, I suppose), there are few coaches I'd bet the house will fare as well or better than Brown did.
LINK
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Posted on 12/19/13 at 1:52 pm to Bench McElroy
Great point
Posted on 12/19/13 at 1:53 pm to Bench McElroy
Its a little different. Texas is in the center of a recruiting hotbed.
Tennessee is not.
Tennessee is not.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 1:56 pm to Bench McElroy
Texas is a much much easier job IMO. If you can coach you are going to win there. Pretty much guaranteed.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 1:57 pm to boXerrumble
quote:
Its a little different. Texas is in the center of a recruiting hotbed.
True but go look at the state recruit rankings and look at how many different colors are in the top 15 that aren't burnt orange.
LINK
Whoever picks up this job will have to pick up a lot of slack on the recruiting front
Posted on 12/19/13 at 1:58 pm to boXerrumble
And I doubt that they would hire a coach that had an overall losing record from a mid-major school just because he came from a certain coaching tree.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 2:00 pm to GeauxAggie972
quote:
Whoever picks up this job will have to pick up a lot of slack on the recruiting front
All they have to do is start giving a shite. Mack Brown has been lazy as frick in recruiting. He let's the school recruit for itself instead of him recruit kids to the school.
If the new HC has any recruiting ability they will be back with top 5 recruiting classes in a relatively short amount of time.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 2:04 pm to Bench McElroy
mack and fulmer are very similar... they're also both from Tennessee.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 2:17 pm to Bench McElroy
No offense to the Vols, but there isn't a lot to rejuvenate their decline. Their portion of the state isn't doing much, they're not in a prime recruiting area, and the school really isn't helping them out in bringing notoriety to itself.
Texas is the opposite of all those things. I think better comparisons to Tennessee would be Nebraska, Penn State, etc. if they had a similar debacle, because the chance of getting back to prior glory is fading all the time.
Texas is the opposite of all those things. I think better comparisons to Tennessee would be Nebraska, Penn State, etc. if they had a similar debacle, because the chance of getting back to prior glory is fading all the time.
This post was edited on 12/19/13 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 12/19/13 at 2:17 pm to Bench McElroy
Exactly, that's why I posted this on the CC Board..
Not that the Big-12 would chip in any money, but how important is Saban to Texas, not just in terms of the Longhorn Football Program, but in terms of Big-12 stabilization?
What a CNS to Texas hire hypothetically could mean on a UTexas, Big-12, Tex-OU rivalry, fending off ATM's in-state rise, and even to Texas High School Football 'toughening back up' from 7-on-7 to some smashmouth via trickle-down effect, can't be understated..
Much like Seigel selling Vegas to the Mafia, long before they could even fathom his full vision, the Mob focused on the 1M he owed, when Bugsy was promoting Billions longhaul..
Could the Texas BigWigs be pennywise and pound foolish to buy a secondary option HC for 5M+(even if an NFL or current BCSCG HC), with no set guarantee what it gets them? When 10M could all but guarantee the success they truly desire.
Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh rate over the rest. Sure, there maybe others that could do nearly as well, but they are riskier hires, even if already big names.
UT & the Big-12 could greatly utilize one of those three..the school and the conference need the star-power & the stability.
P.S. Totally agree with the aforementioned remarks, Tex and Tenn, totally different oranges when it comes to in-state talent, and vastly different if with a great hire..one much better than the other.
Not that the Big-12 would chip in any money, but how important is Saban to Texas, not just in terms of the Longhorn Football Program, but in terms of Big-12 stabilization?
What a CNS to Texas hire hypothetically could mean on a UTexas, Big-12, Tex-OU rivalry, fending off ATM's in-state rise, and even to Texas High School Football 'toughening back up' from 7-on-7 to some smashmouth via trickle-down effect, can't be understated..
Much like Seigel selling Vegas to the Mafia, long before they could even fathom his full vision, the Mob focused on the 1M he owed, when Bugsy was promoting Billions longhaul..
Could the Texas BigWigs be pennywise and pound foolish to buy a secondary option HC for 5M+(even if an NFL or current BCSCG HC), with no set guarantee what it gets them? When 10M could all but guarantee the success they truly desire.
Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh rate over the rest. Sure, there maybe others that could do nearly as well, but they are riskier hires, even if already big names.
UT & the Big-12 could greatly utilize one of those three..the school and the conference need the star-power & the stability.
P.S. Totally agree with the aforementioned remarks, Tex and Tenn, totally different oranges when it comes to in-state talent, and vastly different if with a great hire..one much better than the other.
This post was edited on 12/19/13 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 12/19/13 at 4:37 pm to Bench McElroy
It's different. Tennessee has no in state talent. Therefore, Phil Fulmer must be some recruiting superstar and Tennessee will probably never sign another top ten class.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 4:39 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
No offense to the Vols, but there isn't a lot to rejuvenate their decline. Their portion of the state isn't doing much, they're not in a prime recruiting area, and the school really isn't helping them out in bringing notoriety to itself.
Texas is the opposite of all those things. I think better comparisons to Tennessee would be Nebraska, Penn State, etc. if they had a similar debacle, because the chance of getting back to prior glory is fading all the time.
Right. Oklahoma probably should have shut down the program after losing Switzer. I'm not sure why Alabama kept trying after Dubose, Price, Franchione, and Shula didn't work out. All these programs just wish they could be in a recruiting hot bed like UCLA.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 4:43 pm to Bench McElroy
Not a valid comparison. Texas has a tremendous in state recruiting base, Tennessee IMO does not.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 4:49 pm to GeauxAggie972
quote:
True but go look at the state recruit rankings and look at how many different colors are in the top 15 that aren't burnt orange.
Whoever picks up this job will have to pick up a lot of slack on the recruiting fron
People that think Texas just recruits itself couldn't be more wrong. It is the flagship school but is a very competitive state, not only with so many schools in state, but also every major program around the country coming in. Its no slam dunk, they do need to make a go hire to get back where they want to be. But, even if they blow this hire, they could fix it pretty quick with the next hire. Unlike Tennessee they have a very deep pool of talent to draw from.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 9:43 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:penn st, nebrask, and tenn wish they had such a problem. yes, there are many options for high school studs, but UofTexas in austin carries a ton of weight, especially when the program gets rolling. theres little other programs can offer-- in and out of state-- to trump staying close to home, playing for a prestigious power, great education, and living in a trendy city like austin. its just hard to beat.
Texas just recruits itself couldn't be more wrong. It is the flagship school but is a very competitive state, not only with so many schools in state, but also every major program around the country coming in.
This post was edited on 12/19/13 at 9:44 pm
Posted on 12/19/13 at 10:14 pm to TheRoarRestoredInBR
quote:
What a CNS to Texas hire hypothetically could mean on a UTexas-------and even to Texas High School Football 'toughening back up' from 7-on-7 to some smashmouth via trickle-down effect, can't be understated..
yea, that ain't gonna happen regardless of who they bring in.
in fact, the new HC had better be down with spread passing offenses or Texas will frick themselves much in the same way Nebraska did when they went with Callahan and his pass heavy West Coast offense that wasn't run by any of the HS coaches in his region.
Posted on 12/19/13 at 11:47 pm to Bench McElroy
Texas recruiting base if very different than Tennessee's.
Brown has 1 NC in 16 years of having some of the best talent in the country.
Brown has 1 NC in 16 years of having some of the best talent in the country.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 12:15 am to H-Town Tiger
No place "recruits itself." I think if we're honest, we recognize most kids commit to coaches, not schools. And when you get rid of any successful coach--anywhere--it's always a gamble. Name your top 10 programs right now. Just about every one have had spans do mediocrity, if not outright suckage in the last 10 years. Save maybe for Ohio State. You may hire Bob Stoops. But you're more likely to hire Ron Zook.
Posted on 12/20/13 at 3:53 am to Bench McElroy
This has happened before (Fred Akers, R.C. Slocum) and will happen again.
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