re: Reproductive Rights Discussion - Men get a raw deal

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Maybe the woman should keep her legs closed.

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You're talking about a man's rights/responsiblities not the woman's.

truth be told, this is probably something that should be discussed PRIOR to having sex and if the couple can't agree on the outcome, then don't have sex with each other. Problem solved.

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So a man who would like to take responsibilities for his actions may be overridden by a woman that wants to abort his unborn child.

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People who have such fundamental differences should either not be in a relationship or make damn sure that the pregnancy doesn't happen. Since we all know that no birth control is perfect, it's probably best that they aren't having sex.

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People who have such fundamental differences should either not be in a relationship or make damn sure that the pregnancy doesn't happen. Since we all know that no birth control is perfect, it's probably best that they aren't having sex.

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What I'm asking is:

Why should the woman automatically have more rights?

Why can't men unilaterally walk away from parental rights the way women have been able to since roe v wade?

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Maybe the woman should keep her legs closed.

See how easy that fallacy is?

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bullshite.

You're crying about something that wouldn't be an issue if you thought about it before you went to the bar to pick up a girl.

You don't want to pay child support, don't frick.

You don't want to lose your child right, dont frick.

It's pretty easy. I mean that's what the abstinence only groups tell me all the time.

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You're crying about something that wouldn't be an issue if you thought about it before you went to the bar to pick up a girl.

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You are completely ignoring that the female has responsibility too.

She should have thought about it before having sex if she didn't want to be a mother either.

She is just as responsible, anything less is plain sexism.

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Why should the woman automatically have more rights?

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Because she is the one who's pregnant.

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Why can't men unilaterally walk away from parental rights the way women have been able to since roe v wade?

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Because life isn't fair. What is your answer? How would you suggest leveling the playing field?

The best way to avoid the unwanted pregnancy or difference of opinion is prevention. If you don't want to be a father, if you don't want to be on the hook for child support for a kid you don't want, or if you want to be able to consent or deny abortion, then either make sure you are with someone you don't mind having a kid with, use a condom, get a vasectomy or don't have sex.

Having different options is not the same as having no options.

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I hate to think where we would be as a nation if we approached all our social issues with the such logic.

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So, what is your answer? How do you make this particular issue more equitable? I've asked this before and no one has answered me. Would it be more equitable if the man were the one to decide whether or not the woman has an abortion? Is it ok for him to deny the abortion and then also to decline to support the child?

I personally am OK if the man wants to sign away his parental rights if the woman decides to have the child and he doesn't want it. He walks away with no support payments and she keeps the kid.

What is the answer, in your estimation?

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There's a whole lot of that's the way it is, life isn't fair, law of the land nonsense in this thread. I hate to think where we would be as a nation if we approached all our social issues with the such logic.

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Well, this argument:

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Because life isn't fair. What is your answer?

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usually only applies if you're a woman because men have had a carte blanche lifestyle for thousands of years.


Women only want "equality" when they feel they are in a disadvantaged position.

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1. don't have sex 2. use a condom 3. get a vascetomy

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People who spew this rhetoric are just as bad as Health classes teaching children about abstinence instead of safe sex.

Entertain these points for a second:

1. It takes two people to initiate consensual sexual contact.

2. The only way to be 100% safe guarded from unwanted fertilization is to avoid sexual contact 100%. This falls on BOTH genders, not just men and not just women.

3. Should an unwanted pregnancy result from sexual contact, women carry 100% of the load until the moment of birth (this is indisputable). Which should entitle them to 100% of the decision making power up until the moment of birth.

4. At the moment of birth the decision making power should fall 50/50 since both parties involved in said pregnancy ideally shoulder the load of raising said child.

Perceived inequality falls partially on nature and partially on women. A woman knows without a doubt that she is the mother of said child. A father does not have this luxury. Women can name a father without proof and the courts will hold him liable for child support until the moment this child turns 18.

My opinion on how to make this better serve both parties is:

1. Mandatory Paternity tests on all children to determine legitimacy.

2. Better system of accountability to determine that funds being received by custodial parents are being used for the well being of the child. Example: If I pay 500$ a month in child support, I should be entitled to a receipt of all goods/services utilized in the care of my child.

These 2 things may not be perfect. But they would go a long way to evening up the field. I also doubt we'll ever see this implemented.

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I personally am OK if the man wants to sign away his parental rights if the woman decides to have the child and he doesn't want it.

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Nothing will change. You can't allow a man to force an abortion. You also can't allow a man to veto an abortion. It is the woman's body after all. I do think a man should be able to sign away his rights if he doesn't want the child and I think any child support claim should have to be made within a certain time frame after birth. I don't think a woman should be able to sue for child support years after the child is born. If you want support then you should give the father an opportunity to be in his child's life.