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Started By
Message
re: Ridiculous Scenario - AR Lower Purchase (Out Of State)
Posted on 8/21/13 at 1:30 pm to Judge Smails
Posted on 8/21/13 at 1:30 pm to Judge Smails
Mine was a stripped DS lower...I built that bitch from scratch....and I bought it in TN. No problemo.
I'm still thinking someone is jerking someone around.
I'm still thinking someone is jerking someone around.
1
Posted on 8/21/13 at 1:35 pm to NASA_ISS_Tiger
I'm a resident of LA. I have bought quite a few long guns in OK due to me working there all the time. Also, there's this little gun store in the small town I work in that has a ton of stuff in stock you just can't find in big cities. Now, if they are considering it a pistol, and he really wants to buy the lower from there, you can get an OK driver's license for 21 bucks. You can then go in and buy a pistol same day. Seems retarded, but it works.
Posted on 8/21/13 at 1:48 pm to BayouBrawl
Per the ffl section of the 4437, stripped lowers MUST be checked as "Other" on the form. Intent to build doesn't come into it.
You can only buy a long gun across state lines. A stripped lower is not a long gun.
Non residents cannot purchase. Sorry dude
You can only buy a long gun across state lines. A stripped lower is not a long gun.
Non residents cannot purchase. Sorry dude
Posted on 8/21/13 at 2:03 pm to xenon16
Here's the law, but I'm sure the ATF has put out an interpretation confirming that a lower is marked as "other" and does not rise to the level of treatment as a rifle or a shotgun. After all, it could be made into a pistol
18 U.S.C. 922
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
(2) any firearm to any person in any State where the purchase or possession by such person of such firearm would be in violation of any State law or any published ordinance applicable at the place of sale, delivery or other disposition, unless the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the purchase or possession would not be in violation of such State law or such published ordinance;
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
18 U.S.C. 922
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
(2) any firearm to any person in any State where the purchase or possession by such person of such firearm would be in violation of any State law or any published ordinance applicable at the place of sale, delivery or other disposition, unless the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the purchase or possession would not be in violation of such State law or such published ordinance;
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Posted on 8/21/13 at 2:33 pm to xenon16
quote:
xenon16
This is exactly what I was looking for.
To you, good sir:
So the entire thing comes down to semantics? Specifically because it is categorized as "other" on the form?
Posted on 8/21/13 at 2:39 pm to Judge Smails
I think it is more like they can't prove it won't be used as a handgun. I'm trying to find the ATF letter which specifically addresses it, but the boss man keep coming in with work 
Posted on 8/21/13 at 2:42 pm to NASA_ISS_Tiger
quote:
my Ruger M77
Whats your thoughts on this? Have you enjoyed it?
Posted on 8/21/13 at 2:52 pm to xenon16
quote:
I think it is more like they can't prove it won't be used as a handgun.
I understand the rationale, but it seems ridiculous (for you "kegel") and here's why: an out of state buyer is more likely to make it a handgun versus an in state buyer?
Posted on 8/21/13 at 2:55 pm to xenon16
Posted on 8/21/13 at 3:00 pm to Judge Smails
just order one from palmetto arms.
Posted on 8/21/13 at 3:02 pm to LSUTiger205
quote:
Whats your thoughts on this? Have you enjoyed it?
Need more time on the scope...I've zeroed it..but presently it's no sub-MOA weapon.
Posted on 8/21/13 at 3:04 pm to Judge Smails
quote:
Bro-in-law lives in AR and travels regularly to OK for work. He's found an AR lower he wants (some Rainier Arms zombie version). Guy at the shop tells him he can't sell it to him because it "can't be transported across state lines". I tell him I don't believe that to be accurate, as I have purchased rifles out of state on several occasions. I can't get my FFL on the phone this morning and I can't find anything on Google regarding OK specific gun laws. What say ye mighty OB?
So why doesn't he just tell the guy that it will not be leaving the state?
Posted on 8/21/13 at 3:04 pm to Judge Smails
quote:
Bro-in-law lives in AR and travels regularly to OK for work. He's found an AR lower he wants (some Rainier Arms zombie version). Guy at the shop tells him he can't sell it to him because it "can't be transported across state lines". I tell him I don't believe that to be accurate, as I have purchased rifles out of state on several occasions. I can't get my FFL on the phone this morning and I can't find anything on Google regarding OK specific gun laws. What say ye mighty OB?
So why doesn't he just tell the guy that it will not be leaving the state?
Posted on 8/21/13 at 3:15 pm to lsu480
Good point but he'd be displaying an AR driver's license when/if he purchased it there.
Posted on 8/21/13 at 3:33 pm to Judge Smails
So? Can't he just say he recently moved there?
Posted on 8/21/13 at 3:37 pm to xenon16
quote:
score
Here's their letter from 2009 LINK
That totally jibes with my / my under-21 son's experience.
Explains a lot. Thanks for the find.
Posted on 8/21/13 at 3:40 pm to Judge Smails
quote:I was refused once because the mail-in renewal sticker on the back of my driver license was unreadable and had to go get license renewed just to purchase a rifle.
displaying an AR driver's license
Posted on 8/21/13 at 4:10 pm to Judge Smails
quote:
Exactly. Guys at that gun shop are misinformed. Now if they have a policy at that store where they don't do out of state retail sales, I get that. But to proclaim that there's something illegal about transporting a lower across state lines is utter bullshite.
After you passed such quick judgement, based on no actual knowledge of the law, who turned out to be the misinformed one? You. The FFL opened a business to make sales. Why would he refuse a sale unless it was actually in fact illegal for him to do?
quote:
We need all the law abiding gun owners we can get. I don't want him to be turned off to the whole scene over some dumbfrick sporting an Affliction t and thinking he's judge and jury.
We also need law abiding FFLs. A law abiding gun owner wouldn't be getting his panties in a pinch because his FFL won't do something illegal for him. I guess that would make you the aforementioned "dumbfrick" since you mistook his complete knowledge of the business he operates in as thinking he's judge and jury.
quote:
ETA - I'm going to find the fricker cheaper somewhere else to make sure they don't get the business. I know that sounds trivial of me but it's strictly the principle of the matter at this point.
More pouting and now threatening to boycott his shop, for what? For following the LAW?
quote:
So the entire thing comes down to semantics? Specifically because it is categorized as "other" on the form?
It's not semantics, it's the law. This is black and white. Shotgun: OK...Rifle: OK...Pistol: Not OK...Other: Not OK.
quote:
Then do me a solid and cite the law/information I came here looking for or GTFO
Just a general piece of advice, if you need legal information seek a lawyer, not your local internet forum. There's a lot of misinformation out there.
Lastly, I'll give you 4 options to obtain the Rainer Zombie lower your friend desires, LEGALLY. I also hope that next time you run into a hurdle in life you don't handle it like a know-it-all douche when you in fact know nothing on the matter.
1. Move to O.K. where the lower is.
2. Have the FFL ship it to a FFL in your home state.
3. Order it yourself from Rainer, and have it shipped to your FFL
4. Find an FFL in your home state that has one in-stock.
This post was edited on 8/21/13 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 8/21/13 at 4:24 pm to Propagandalf
Yet others in this thread have purchased a lower citing the exact circumstances I offered in the OP? I didn't ask for an interpretation of the law so I don't need an attorney, I asked for the law - specifically where I could go to educate myself on the issue. And I'm not purchasing the item - merely assisting a family member. Finally, I reached out to my FFL before posting the thread on the subject here this morning.
Oh, btw, he's going with your option number three. If only you would have been available this morning you could have saved me a lot of time. Unfortunately it wouldn't have allowed you to ride in, e-knight, and generally be a smug prick.
Oh, btw, he's going with your option number three. If only you would have been available this morning you could have saved me a lot of time. Unfortunately it wouldn't have allowed you to ride in, e-knight, and generally be a smug prick.
This post was edited on 8/21/13 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 8/21/13 at 5:21 pm to Judge Smails
Glad it worked out. 
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