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Message
What does a CFB team (TCU vs. LSU) need to be successful in a BCS conference?
Posted on 8/12/13 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 8/12/13 at 12:27 pm
This is based on multiple posts using TCU's most recent and first season in the Big 12 as "proof" of future ineptitude on the big stage.
Any explanation or discourse of the stumbling blocks TCU, in a building year, faced are dismissed as whiny excuses. Conversely, LSU fans brag about the quality depth across the field especially at impact positions and returning starters who have faced SEC competition.
Consider:
How much do you feel recruiting plays a role in success?
How much do you feel being established and successful in a conference effects recruiting?
How much do you think recruiting affects quality depth?
For a team moving to a conference with increased recruiting potential (Mountain West to Big12),how much do you think the annual scholarship limit affects the rate at which that team reaches max capacity of highly recruited players?
How much do you believe game time experience against tough opponents, even for highly recruited players, contributes to future success?
How much do you feel injury affects a teams ability to succeed during any given season, especially for teams with limited depth?
How much does the timing of starters being absent due to injury or suspension affect success?
How often do you feel a coach or team has the ability to overcome unequal recruiting, multiple injuries, and inexperience simply through individual player development and game planning?
When perennial powerhouse teams (USC, LSU, bama, FLA, GA, Ohio, TX, OU) have bad seasons what are the major causes?
Does a single bad season or even two, assuming the underlying cause(s) is(are) corrected, pre-determine further decline?
Yes TCU had a bad 2012 season going 7-5 in conference and 7-6 overall.
Yes LSU had a bad season in 2008 going 7-5 in conference and 8-5 overall. Also in 2002 and 2009 LSU stumbled. Yet in 2003 and 2007 LSU won it all and in 2011 they again played for the National Title.
All teams stumble. It happens. Every game one team has to lose. Most fans know why as season was unsuccessful. Don't confuse those realities with whiny excuses. Furthermore, don't convince yourself that a single poor season or even two in a row should be used as a barometer of future success.
Go Frogs!
and
Geaux Tigers!
It should be one hell of a game.
Any explanation or discourse of the stumbling blocks TCU, in a building year, faced are dismissed as whiny excuses. Conversely, LSU fans brag about the quality depth across the field especially at impact positions and returning starters who have faced SEC competition.
Consider:
How much do you feel recruiting plays a role in success?
How much do you feel being established and successful in a conference effects recruiting?
How much do you think recruiting affects quality depth?
For a team moving to a conference with increased recruiting potential (Mountain West to Big12),how much do you think the annual scholarship limit affects the rate at which that team reaches max capacity of highly recruited players?
How much do you believe game time experience against tough opponents, even for highly recruited players, contributes to future success?
How much do you feel injury affects a teams ability to succeed during any given season, especially for teams with limited depth?
How much does the timing of starters being absent due to injury or suspension affect success?
How often do you feel a coach or team has the ability to overcome unequal recruiting, multiple injuries, and inexperience simply through individual player development and game planning?
When perennial powerhouse teams (USC, LSU, bama, FLA, GA, Ohio, TX, OU) have bad seasons what are the major causes?
Does a single bad season or even two, assuming the underlying cause(s) is(are) corrected, pre-determine further decline?
Yes TCU had a bad 2012 season going 7-5 in conference and 7-6 overall.
Yes LSU had a bad season in 2008 going 7-5 in conference and 8-5 overall. Also in 2002 and 2009 LSU stumbled. Yet in 2003 and 2007 LSU won it all and in 2011 they again played for the National Title.
All teams stumble. It happens. Every game one team has to lose. Most fans know why as season was unsuccessful. Don't confuse those realities with whiny excuses. Furthermore, don't convince yourself that a single poor season or even two in a row should be used as a barometer of future success.
Go Frogs!
and
Geaux Tigers!
It should be one hell of a game.
13
Posted on 8/12/13 at 12:29 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:Pick one
Go Frogs!
and
Geaux Tigers!
Posted on 8/12/13 at 12:29 pm to Bleeding purple
Yeah no one is going to read that
Posted on 8/12/13 at 12:37 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Yes LSU had a bad season in 2008 going 7-5 in conference and 8-5 overall. Also in 2002 and 2009 LSU stumbled. Yet in 2003 and 2007 LSU won it all and in 2011 they again played for the National Title.
Good post, but we didn't lose 5 last year...
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:01 pm to Bleeding purple
i'm just gonna say this; i would like to take a bottle of jameson's and discuss these questions with you. i'm pretty sure it would take hours to cover in depth. the main element i noticed is that you may feel that TCU didn't quite have enough BCS quality athletes in depth when you switched to the Big 12. i think you are correct as your schedule got tougher and your record reflected that. the thing about a tough BCS conference is that playing tough physical teams every week imparts great wear and tear on your starters and they get injured or nicked. the SEC is even tougher. a successful team MUST HAVE at least a 2 deep rotation that is equal in talent if they are going to compete for the championship. only great recruiting can do this and it must be consistent and heavy on the "beef"; that is the lines of scrimmage. LSU has 10 SEC quality guys on the OL that is going to try and beat the shite out of your DL and wear them down. if only your starters are top notch they will get very tired and less effective, esp when our FB, who is a monster, pounds the hole right before our 225 pound tailback slams into them and also delivers blows. in summary, today's top notch football teams need a second team as good as the first team.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:05 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Bleeding purple
Sorry to say this bro - beat down on the horizon.
How's the deer herd looking ?
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:05 pm to ForeverLSU02
quote:
Pick one
For this game I will be cheering for TCU. I will not be wearing or cheering for the Tigers. Have stated many times.
However, LSU will always be in my heart even if TCU is on my wall.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:13 pm to Bleeding purple
I'll second grandad, you are asking too many questions to easily be discussed in one post.
To answer part of your question I feel that TCU has had to completely change their recruiting strategy.
Recruiting in a smaller conference does not allow you the luxury of pulling in big name recruits. Instead, you are forced to find the diamond in the rough type of players.
Essentially you are building a team of good, but not great FB players. A great coach is then able to figure out a scheme that gets the full potential out of his players.
In bigger conferences, big name teams don't always have to sell themselves. They are who they are, and tons of recruits want to play for them. Sure winning can sway some guys, but there are plenty of top flight guys tgat have always wanted to play at your school. This helps these teams stock pile their talent.
Recruiting is an arms race. Your rival grabbed the #1 WR, so you better lock down the #1 DB.
This also leads to grabbing guys you may not even need bc you don't want them going to a rival school.
To answer part of your question I feel that TCU has had to completely change their recruiting strategy.
Recruiting in a smaller conference does not allow you the luxury of pulling in big name recruits. Instead, you are forced to find the diamond in the rough type of players.
Essentially you are building a team of good, but not great FB players. A great coach is then able to figure out a scheme that gets the full potential out of his players.
In bigger conferences, big name teams don't always have to sell themselves. They are who they are, and tons of recruits want to play for them. Sure winning can sway some guys, but there are plenty of top flight guys tgat have always wanted to play at your school. This helps these teams stock pile their talent.
Recruiting is an arms race. Your rival grabbed the #1 WR, so you better lock down the #1 DB.
This also leads to grabbing guys you may not even need bc you don't want them going to a rival school.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:23 pm to Bleeding purple
The biggest thing a program needs to succeed long term is resources. That includes tangible resources, mainly revenue and access to talent and intangible things like univeristy and fan support, stuff like that.
Clearly revenue is a major factor. As a smaller, private school, smaller stadium etc TCU will not have the revenue of an LSU or A&M from ticket sales, advertising, donations etc, but now that they are in a BCS conference, they will get a lot more revenue from TV than they did in the MWC or CUSA. Obviously they are in a hotbed for talent in Texas and DFW in particular. They probably will not contend for as many top end recruits as UT and A&M, but they have shown in the past you can get plenty of talent taking the 2nd level guys.
Overall, I don't think TCU can be a consitent top 10 team, but they can certainly be a thorn in people sides and could line up the stars from time to time and make a nice run.
Clearly revenue is a major factor. As a smaller, private school, smaller stadium etc TCU will not have the revenue of an LSU or A&M from ticket sales, advertising, donations etc, but now that they are in a BCS conference, they will get a lot more revenue from TV than they did in the MWC or CUSA. Obviously they are in a hotbed for talent in Texas and DFW in particular. They probably will not contend for as many top end recruits as UT and A&M, but they have shown in the past you can get plenty of talent taking the 2nd level guys.
Overall, I don't think TCU can be a consitent top 10 team, but they can certainly be a thorn in people sides and could line up the stars from time to time and make a nice run.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:26 pm to Bleeding purple
I'll just answer one of these:
This is everything. To have a program that can "reload the weapon" instead of "rebuilding", you must be stout in recruitment year in year out.
quote:
How much do you feel recruiting plays a role in success?
This is everything. To have a program that can "reload the weapon" instead of "rebuilding", you must be stout in recruitment year in year out.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:28 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Does a single bad season or even two, assuming the underlying cause(s) is(are) corrected, pre-determine further decline?
Two, sometimes, that is why the seats get warm. That is also why good coaches can turn around a program in 2 or 3 years.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:30 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
Consider: How much do you feel recruiting plays a role in success?
As much as I hate him, I have to admit Bear Bryant had several things right.
One of them was that he believed 90% of success in CFB derived from recruiting.
That's why he cheated at it so much.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:39 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
This is based on multiple posts using TCU's most recent and first season in the Big 12 as "proof" of future ineptitude on the big stage.
You can find "mulitple posts" on this and other boards saying just about anything. I don't know that there's any consensus among LSU fans or CFB fans in general that TCU can't be successful in the Big XII. Aren't they picked third in the conference coming into the season? That sounds like most expect TCU to do well.
quote:
Any explanation or discourse of the stumbling blocks TCU, in a building year, faced are dismissed as whiny excuses
I'm well familiar with the pitfalls TCU encountered last year, and don't regard them as "whiny excuses" at all. I'm surprised they did as well as they did considering the circumstances.
quote:
How much do you feel recruiting plays a role in success?
It's the most important thing. With the right players, anyone can win a titles (e.g. Chizik, Coker).
quote:
How much do you feel being established and successful in a conference effects recruiting?
It sure helps.
quote:
How much do you think recruiting affects quality depth?
Um...100%?
quote:
For a team moving to a conference with increased recruiting potential (Mountain West to Big12),how much do you think the annual scholarship limit affects the rate at which that team reaches max capacity of highly recruited players?
The scholarship limit is less of a factor than the ability to recruit even enough top athletes to fill the limit.
quote:
How much do you believe game time experience against tough opponents, even for highly recruited players, contributes to future success?
It helps. I don't know that it's all that big a factor. Boise State fares pretty well without having to face many tough opponents, and TCU has in recent years as well.
quote:
How much do you feel injury affects a teams ability to succeed during any given season, especially for teams with limited depth?
Depends on how many injuries and at what positions. Obviously injuries and other personnel losses can turn a national title contender into a non-contender (see LSU last year).
quote:
How much does the timing of starters being absent due to injury or suspension affect success?
Well, a lot, of course. If they're out for the biggest game of the year, the impact is greater than if if they're out for a cupcake game.
quote:
How often do you feel a coach or team has the ability to overcome unequal recruiting, multiple injuries, and inexperience simply through individual player development and game planning?
Very rarely.
quote:
When perennial powerhouse teams (USC, LSU, bama, FLA, GA, Ohio, TX, OU) have bad seasons what are the major causes?
There are a million of them. Tough competition is usually involved, though. LSU can't afford to stumble due to injuries or personnel losses and still have a great season because there are four top-ten teams on our conference schedule. A team in a lesser conference probably could.
quote:
Does a single bad season or even two, assuming the underlying cause(s) is(are) corrected, pre-determine further decline?
Of course not.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:41 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Clearly revenue is a major factor
quote:
As a smaller, private school, smaller stadium etc TCU will not have the revenue of an LSU or A&M from ticket sales, advertising, donations etc
Donations are not a problem. Although smaller than most, the stadium now has an official capacity of 45,000 and had an attendance of 50,307 vs. Utah (Nov. 14, 2009)prior to renovations.
From prior to renovation even starting: The original renovation plans, “which addressed the west side and north side of the stadium, were funded by private donations, including six ‘founders’ who each donated $15 million.” But after fundraising “exceeded $105 million,” TCU made plans “to include the east side.” One of the founders “likely made it a done deal by donating an additional $10 million last week, raising the total to $143 million.”
Posted on 8/12/13 at 1:49 pm to Bleeding purple
TCU's biggest issue is not assembling a starting core group of players who can compete against anyone. They can do this and have done it for several years. The issue is that to compete in a big time conference you need at least two sets of starters at virtually every position, and some need three. Injuries and fatigue over the repeated big games would wear a single core of players down.
LSU is successful, in part, because we rotate players throughout each game and throughout the season to try to keep everyone healthy and productive. You can't have an obvious drop off when you rotate. If we had to rely on 22 guys to carry the load, we wouldn't be so unbelievably and incredibly good.
So in my mind, recruiting, top to bottom, is perhaps the most important thing.
LSU is successful, in part, because we rotate players throughout each game and throughout the season to try to keep everyone healthy and productive. You can't have an obvious drop off when you rotate. If we had to rely on 22 guys to carry the load, we wouldn't be so unbelievably and incredibly good.
So in my mind, recruiting, top to bottom, is perhaps the most important thing.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 4:24 pm to TBoy
Some well thought out non knee jerk responses in here. Bravo Rant 
Posted on 8/12/13 at 4:38 pm to Bleeding purple
Talent and depth.
Their isn't much diff between SEC and big 12 first teams. The difference is when backups come in. There isn't much drop off between 1 and 2's on a good SEC team.
Their isn't much diff between SEC and big 12 first teams. The difference is when backups come in. There isn't much drop off between 1 and 2's on a good SEC team.
Posted on 8/12/13 at 4:42 pm to Big Lake
quote:
Message Posted by Big Lake Yeah no one is going to read that
I read it dipshit
Posted on 8/12/13 at 4:43 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
What does a CFB team (TCU vs. LSU) need to be successful in a BCS conference
My answer would be quality depth on the lines.
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