The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question | TigerDroppings.com

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FT
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The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question



Two people with something to prove tangled, and one died. Neither was legally right at all times, neither was legally wrong at all times, and one died.

If the result had been the death of Zimmerman, I think that Martin would have been acquitted as well. There wouldn't have been enough proof on either side, and there would have been plenty of doubt, as Martin could have argued that he saw the gun and feared for his life.

The above is conjecture; I don't know that that would have happened for certain, but I think that it would, and I think it's fair to say that it's likely.

Here's the philosophical question, and I don't have an answer to it, at all:

Would it have been better if Martin had killed Zimmerman instead of the other way around? Would it have helped race relations? Would it have been just? Would it have set a good legal precedent if he'd killed him and gotten off?







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PsychTiger
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


If Martin had killed Zimmerman the story would have never gotten beyond the local news. The racial animosity would still be here, just under the surface like before all this started.





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JohnnyKilroy
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Member since Oct 2012
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Would it have been better if Martin had killed Zimmerman instead of the other way around? Would it have helped race relations? Would it have been just? Would it have set a good legal precedent if he'd killed him and gotten off?


I don't think it would be "better" or "worse" if it happened the other way around. Their would still be a dead person because of a fight.

It certainly wouldn't have helped race relations because it would have been a story on the local news one night and a short article in the morning paper and that would be that. No coverage.

If Trayvon had killed GZ and said he was standing his ground after seeing GZ's gun, it would be just to acquit as long as there wasn't enough evidence to refute that claim.






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CarrolltonTiger
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


What was Zimmerman's legal wrong? If there was one the guy would have been convicted of whatever it is you are suggesting.

quote:

If the result had been the death of Zimmerman, I think that Martin would have been acquitted as well.


A kid with a sketchy criminal background beats up and kills a homeowner for no reason and he walks? It would not have been a cause for the race mongers , but Trayvon would have had a hard time explaining the death in any legal manner.

Zimmerman's version made sense.

Stupid question IMHO.






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JohnnyKilroy
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Member since Oct 2012
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

A kid with a sketchy criminal background


Was Trayvon ever convicted or charged with a crime?






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Gmorgan4982
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


What did each have to prove and where can you show that Zimmerman was legally wrong?





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CarrolltonTiger
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Was Trayvon ever convicted or charged with a crime?


I thought the events that led to his most recent school suspension were of a criminal nature and the testimony of Precious and social media seem to draw one to that conclusion, unless one picks and choose what laws apply to trayvon






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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


He was never charged or convicted of a crime.

Zimmerman's criminal history is way sketchier than trayvon's






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GumboPot
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Two people with something to prove tangled, and one died. Neither was legally right at all times, neither was legally wrong at all times, and one died.



I disagree. I should be able to walk up to someone on a public sidewalk and ask them a question without getting cold cocked.

quote:

Would it have been better if Martin had killed Zimmerman instead of the other way around? Would it have helped race relations? Would it have been just? Would it have set a good legal precedent if he'd killed him and gotten off?


If TM killed GZ the case would have totally flown under the radar.



This post was edited on 7/19 at 11:50 am


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augrad00
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Member since Nov 2010
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


Because TM would have been in jail because the Stand Your Ground law doesn't apply to him like the lady sentenced to 20 years for Standing her Ground against her abusive husband/boyfriend/whatever


This post was edited on 7/19 at 12:03 pm


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Antonio Moss
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

What was Zimmerman's legal wrong?


This. Zimmerman did not break a single law that night.






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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Because TM would have been in jail because the Stand Your Ground law doesn't apply to him like the lady sentenced to 20 years for Standing her Ground against her abusive husband/boyfriend/whatever


Sarcasm?






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Antonio Moss
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Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Because TM would have been in jail because the Stand Your Ground law doesn't apply to him like the lady sentenced to 20 years for Standing her Ground against her abusive husband/boyfriend/whatever


There is so much wrong in such a little space.

1) Stand your ground was not at issue in the case.
2) Stand your ground or self defense would not have been available to Martin because all evidence suggests that he was the aggressor and at no point prior to Zimmerman's defense of himself was Martin's life or bodily health in danger.
3) Stand your ground was not applicable to the other woman in Florida because she left the scene and retrieved a weapon only to return to the scene and kill the victim.







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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26283 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

I should be able to walk up to someone on a public sidewalk and ask them a question without getting cold cocked.



If you're following someone and that someone even ran at one point, you shouldn't be surprised at getting cold cocked.

You should at least have the common sense to explain to the person why you were following him.






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CarrolltonTiger
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New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
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re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Zimmerman's criminal history is way sketchier than trayvon's


Zimmerman has no convictions, not even for the speeding ticket they dug up on him.

If Trayvon had another 15 years to run the streets, do you think his record would still be as favorable as you feel it is today?






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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26283 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

2) Stand your ground or self defense would not have been available to Martin because all evidence suggests that he was the aggressor and at no point prior to Zimmerman's defense of himself was Martin's life or bodily health in danger.


You're assuming Zimmerman's account of what happened. Zimmerman would be dead.

What if Tray said Zimmerman had his gun out and the fight was over the gun?






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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
29051 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

You're assuming Zimmerman's account of what happened. Zimmerman would be dead.


If you would have read closely you would have seen that I said "all the evidence suggest." The law is not in the habit of making unfounded assumptions on the possible testimony of the dead.






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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26283 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:


Zimmerman has no convictions, not even for the speeding ticket they dug up on him.


Amazing what being the son of a judge will do when you're arrested huh.

Martin had no convictions or arrests.

quote:


If Trayvon had another 15 years to run the streets, do you think his record would still be as favorable as you feel it is today?


Given GZ's record, I doubt in 15 years his record would be so clean.






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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26283 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:


If you would have read closely you would have seen that I said "all the evidence suggest." The law is not in the habit of making unfounded assumptions on the possible testimony of the dead.


You really suck at hypotheticals.






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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46314 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

What if Tray said Zimmerman had his gun out and the fight was over the gun?


How believable do you think that story would have been? Do you think your boy Tray would have stuck around after he killed Zimmerman to wait for the police or ran away? Forensics would have probably been just as probative of the facts.






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