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Posted on 4/19/13 at 9:45 am to Toula
quote:
Would you rather have Damien Lillard or Michael Kidd-Gilchrest????
You know you are comparing the Bobcats to the Trailblazers right? It's not like MKG was a slouch. People think he is going to be a great pro still and had a solid year. There are also quite a few to who think Lillard already hit his ceiling and won't get much better.
Either way, you shouldn't compare Lillard and MKG since they were in the league for 1 year especially given the fact that MKG is 3 years younger.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 9:51 am to BarbaricPelican
MKG's own team has criticized his game and his development. The guy is getting almost 30 minutes a night and has regressed over the course of the year.
Not saying he can't be good but he really hasn't shown anything for being the 2nd pick in the draft playing starter minutes.
Not saying he can't be good but he really hasn't shown anything for being the 2nd pick in the draft playing starter minutes.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 9:55 am to BarbaricPelican
My point is..last few drafts are littered with PGs who have come in and made an immediate impact. Which is what the Pelicans need. The great college defenders are all wait and see for 2-3 years and hope they develop and offensive game.
Look at last 4 years..PGs drafted in 1st that are 6'1" and under and made quick impacts:
2009:
Brandon Jennings
Darren Collison
Ty Lawson
2010:
Eric Bledsoe
2011:
Kemba Walker
Knocking Burke for his height is foolish. Especially considering he has a wingspan of 6'5".
Look at last 4 years..PGs drafted in 1st that are 6'1" and under and made quick impacts:
2009:
Brandon Jennings
Darren Collison
Ty Lawson
2010:
Eric Bledsoe
2011:
Kemba Walker
Knocking Burke for his height is foolish. Especially considering he has a wingspan of 6'5".
Posted on 4/19/13 at 10:01 am to Toula
quote:
Knocking Burke for his height is foolish. Especially considering he has a wingspan of 6'5".
I didn't knock his height. I said his defense is poor and that translates to the NBA level. And I actually said he would be good offensively coming in. Burke would be a better fit next to Afflalo, not Gordon.
Just don't see how he would help stop 30 point quarters against us. Oladipo is also better than MKG offensively. He can hit spot up jumpers.
This post was edited on 4/19/13 at 10:04 am
Posted on 4/19/13 at 11:04 am to Toula
Burke would be a great facilitator on offense. I'm still waiting for proof of his horrible defense.
I also wonder who was the last "defensive" team to be successful? That piston team? Look what all the successful teams have in common.
You want a defensive specialist, then pay a FA $4m a year. Don't waste a top 5 pick on one. Just my opinion
I also wonder who was the last "defensive" team to be successful? That piston team? Look what all the successful teams have in common.
You want a defensive specialist, then pay a FA $4m a year. Don't waste a top 5 pick on one. Just my opinion
Posted on 4/19/13 at 11:33 am to GynoSandberg
I think you should look over the teams that won championships. Because from what I see almost all of them were very good defensively.
And Oladipo isn't just a defensive specialist which is the point. He has offensive potential by showing he can knock down spot up shots. Upside factors in too. Burke is a high floor guy. Oladipo probably up there with Noel and Ben upside-wise.
So as a GM, you either take a guy that you know will be pretty good offensively and is susceptible on defense. Or a guy who will make a defensive impact right away with offensive potential.
I may be undervaluing Burke to you. But you should also realize you are undervaluing Oladipo with comparisons of his offensive game to Bruce Bowen. If we go that route then Trey Burke is Jameer Nelson. Both won player of the year. And I wouldn't draft Nelson in the top 5. Just like you wouldn't draft a Bowen or Allen.
And Oladipo isn't just a defensive specialist which is the point. He has offensive potential by showing he can knock down spot up shots. Upside factors in too. Burke is a high floor guy. Oladipo probably up there with Noel and Ben upside-wise.
So as a GM, you either take a guy that you know will be pretty good offensively and is susceptible on defense. Or a guy who will make a defensive impact right away with offensive potential.
I may be undervaluing Burke to you. But you should also realize you are undervaluing Oladipo with comparisons of his offensive game to Bruce Bowen. If we go that route then Trey Burke is Jameer Nelson. Both won player of the year. And I wouldn't draft Nelson in the top 5. Just like you wouldn't draft a Bowen or Allen.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 11:44 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
I'm still waiting for proof of his horrible defense.
Defensive schemes in college are a joke compared to what players have to do in the NBA. IMO it's tough to gather much valuable info other than "he's atheletic and tall" or "he's short and slow"
Burke may not have ideal size/athelticism, while Oladipo may. But that's no guarantee that Burke can't learn how to play defense in the NBA and Oladipo will. Plenty of athletic "stoppers" have been drafted who didn't pan out.
And no one, other than Tim Duncan, comes into the NBA as a good defensive player. shite, we just watched Anthony Davis struggle on defense for most of this season.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 11:50 am to corndeaux
quote:
And no one, other than Tim Duncan, comes into the NBA as a good defensive player. shite, we just watched Anthony Davis struggle on defense for most of this season.
He also struggled because our perimeter defense and rotation were trash too
quote:
Burke may not have ideal size/athelticism, while Oladipo may. But that's no guarantee that Burke can't learn how to play defense in the NBA and Oladipo will. Plenty of athletic "stoppers" have been drafted who didn't pan out.
More so can be said about the players that were great on offense out of college.
This post was edited on 4/19/13 at 11:53 am
Posted on 4/19/13 at 12:17 pm to BarbaricPelican
quote:
He also struggled because our perimeter defense and rotation were trash too
Definitely.
But I was underwhelmed by his defense the first half of the season (obviously some of it has to do with expectations as well).
quote:
More so can be said about the players that were great on offense out of college.
True.
In a year like this- every player has serious questions- it's a coin flip. Burke/Oladipo, whatever. If he busts, he can still be flipped later.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Unfortunately, chance doesn't give a shite what anyone thinks.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 12:26 pm to BarbaricPelican
quote:
More so can be said about the players that were great on offense out of college.
So you mean PGs like Steph Curry,Damian Lillard and Kemba Walker who were both top 5 in the NCAA in scoring the year before they were drafted?
Shooting translates to the NBA. Especially if you can create your own shot.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 12:28 pm to corndeaux
It would be funny if with the 6th pick, Pelicans draft CJ McCollum lol. Considering how much everyone is debating Burke/Oladipo.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 12:30 pm to Toula
Shooting does. But I never said he won't be good offensively... I don't remember saying that at all. I actually said the opposite
This post was edited on 4/19/13 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 4/19/13 at 1:10 pm to BarbaricPelican
quote:
He has offensive potential by showing he can knock down spot up shots.
You keep saying this.
But what about this
quote:
But he shot just 21.1% on jump shots and only 18% on catch and shoot opportunities.
Those numbers are absolutely horrid.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 1:19 pm to GynoSandberg
Yea. I got soured on Oladipo in reading his draftexpress profile.
meh
quote:
Oladipo is fairly limited as a ball-handler and playmaker, with most of his opportunities coming off of straight-line drives on close-outs or when he can catch the ball on the move.
quote:
looks to have all of the makings of a solid role player, even with a lack of polish in his offensive skill set.
quote:
potential is there for him to become an adequate spot shooter in time
meh
Posted on 4/19/13 at 1:35 pm to GynoSandberg
I guess he got lucky with his percentage in 3s. FT percentage is usually a good indication of how well a kid might be able to shoot.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 1:47 pm to Toula
I guess you didn't read this part
Or this part
quote:
It's clear that he's put in the work to improve his jump shot. He looks more fluid and comfortable with his release than last year, and the ball seems to come off of his hands softer, with better rotation and arc on his shot. He's also done a very good job knowing his limitations as a shooter, as 74% of his jumpers this season have come off the catch with his feet set, and the pull-up jumpers he has taken have been good, open looks for the most part.
Or this part
quote:
As we've touched on before, Oladipo is fairly limited as a ball-handler and playmaker, with most of his opportunities coming off of straight-line drives on close-outs or when he can catch the ball on the move. Indiana Coach Tom Crean seems to be getting more comfortable using him as a creator, however, as almost 20% of his possessions have come in isolations or as the ball-handler in pick-and-roll sets. He is far more comfortable dribbling and finishing with his right hand at this stage and doesn't show much in the way of advanced ball-handling skills, but he's still able to get the basket at times, as he is very difficult to stop once he's built up a full head of steam and is able to utilize his blazing speed.
This post was edited on 4/19/13 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 4/19/13 at 1:51 pm to BarbaricPelican
Both things you quoted are knocks on his offensive game.
So he can't create his own shot, unless it's a pull-up wide open look. 3/4 of his attempts have come when he's set and waiting for the ball.
This is the NBA. If you can't create your own shot, you will not be good.
quote:
He's also done a very good job knowing his limitations as a shooter, as 74% of his jumpers this season have come off the catch with his feet set, and the pull-up jumpers he has taken have been good, open looks for the most part.
So he can't create his own shot, unless it's a pull-up wide open look. 3/4 of his attempts have come when he's set and waiting for the ball.
This is the NBA. If you can't create your own shot, you will not be good.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 2:01 pm to BarbaricPelican
His sample size for 3s is small for a SG, yes? A guy like McClemore shot 100+ more threes than Dipo at a 42% pace. 5 a game to Dipo's 2.
And a 72% FT is an indicator of a good shooter? Lol. There are literally 25 NBA SGs who shot better than that from the line.
And a 72% FT is an indicator of a good shooter? Lol. There are literally 25 NBA SGs who shot better than that from the line.
Posted on 4/19/13 at 2:13 pm to GynoSandberg
74.6% from the line. I'd say 2 a game from 30+ games with that percentage is a pretty good sample size to show.
But like I said. You like Burke. I like Dipo. Everything else is subjective. You toss out cons at Dipo. Burke has the same amount of cons.
I just fail to think Burke is the answer for the Pelicans troubles. And if you think Dipo isn't then that's fine. We can run in circles all you want. It will be the same endgame.
But like I said. You like Burke. I like Dipo. Everything else is subjective. You toss out cons at Dipo. Burke has the same amount of cons.
I just fail to think Burke is the answer for the Pelicans troubles. And if you think Dipo isn't then that's fine. We can run in circles all you want. It will be the same endgame.
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