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What stats will get a pitcher from this era in the HOF?
Posted on 4/8/13 at 7:50 pm
Posted on 4/8/13 at 7:50 pm
Roy Halladay's performance got me thinking. He has been one of the best (arguably the best) pitchers of the 2000's. He is currently 199-101 with a career 3.32 ERA and 2075 K's. 8x all star, 2x CY
Without looking at the name on the back of the jersey, what stats would you expect from a pitcher in this generation to say "Yeah that guy needs to be in the hall of fame"?
Without looking at the name on the back of the jersey, what stats would you expect from a pitcher in this generation to say "Yeah that guy needs to be in the hall of fame"?
5
Posted on 4/8/13 at 7:51 pm to 1ranter1
Better than that. Pitchers today just suck
Posted on 4/8/13 at 7:54 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Better than that. Pitchers today just suck
More brilliance from you
Posted on 4/8/13 at 7:54 pm to 1ranter1
I think Halladay is a Hall of Famer. The decline in wins will frick over a lot of starting pitchers.
The voters will never do this, but they need to stay away from some of the traditional stats to judge this era because the decline in wins is so much. Look at k/bb rate, FIP, and their relative dominance in the league.
The voters will never do this, but they need to stay away from some of the traditional stats to judge this era because the decline in wins is so much. Look at k/bb rate, FIP, and their relative dominance in the league.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 7:55 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
Better than that. Pitchers today just suck
Posted on 4/8/13 at 7:55 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Look at k/bb rate, FIP, and their relative dominance in the league.
I will cry tears of joy if HOF voters ever start looking at FIP
Posted on 4/8/13 at 7:55 pm to 1ranter1
i would say the multiple Cy youngs, one in each league
how many multiplet Cy winners arent in the hall?
how many multiplet Cy winners arent in the hall?
Posted on 4/8/13 at 7:59 pm to Lester Earl
So you think Lincecum is in?
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:00 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
how many multiplet Cy winners arent in the hall?
Not counting recently retired pitchers, Denny McLain and Bret Saberhagen. Clemens probably won't get in, but thats not for on the field performance.
Johan and Tiny Tim also have 2 from this era.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:00 pm to Lester Earl
So you think Lincecum is in?
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:02 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Look at k/bb rate, FIP, and their relative dominance in the league.
In addition, I would look at ERA+, WAR (both FG and BR), and peak dominance/longevity.
I think Halladay is a lock if he retired today. I wouldn't cry about Johan Santana being inducted because his peak was so good, but unless he returns he has no chance to get into the hall due to his low counting stats.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:02 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
Quality starts IMO.
Leaders since 1950 through 2011 (can't find it updated and don't feel like tallying it)
Tim Lincecum (101 of 139, 72.7%)
Tom Seaver (454 of 647, 70.2%)
Adam Wainwright (83 of 119, 69.7%)
Mel Stottlemyre (247 of 356, 69.4%)
Roy Oswalt (216 of 316, 68.4%)
Josh Johnson (77 of 113, 68.1%)
Bob Gibson (328 of 482, 68%)
Roy Halladay (226 of 338, 66.9%)
Félix Hernández (127 of 190, 66.8%)
Randy Johnson (403 of 603, 66.8%)
Leaders since 1950 through 2011 (can't find it updated and don't feel like tallying it)
Tim Lincecum (101 of 139, 72.7%)
Tom Seaver (454 of 647, 70.2%)
Adam Wainwright (83 of 119, 69.7%)
Mel Stottlemyre (247 of 356, 69.4%)
Roy Oswalt (216 of 316, 68.4%)
Josh Johnson (77 of 113, 68.1%)
Bob Gibson (328 of 482, 68%)
Roy Halladay (226 of 338, 66.9%)
Félix Hernández (127 of 190, 66.8%)
Randy Johnson (403 of 603, 66.8%)
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:05 pm to TigerintheNO
well obviously not right now he's not in. He could be though
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:08 pm to TH03
Standard for a QS needs to be changed to 2 ER and 6+ imo. 3 R and 6 innings is a 4.50 ERA
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:08 pm to TH03
I feel like Bill Simmons has used the idea of 5-year splits as a metric of sorts (I could be misattributing the idea to him). Regardless of how you feel about him, I feel like there's some appeal to that measurement. I feel like a dominant/VERY good 5 year split with a few other years performing at a high level is probably a good argument for inclusion.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:08 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
And I don't like FIP. How do you account for HRs that are robbed for instance? You can't just "remove" random chance which could be hard hit balls indicative of a pitchers performance and expect to make up for it by overweighting home runs.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:09 pm to volfan30
I agree. We've come to expect 6+ from dominant pitchers in this era
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:12 pm to volfan30
quote:
Standard for a QS needs to be changed to 2 ER and 6+ imo
I agree that it needs to be changed, but this would be a little tough. I think it should be 6+ innings with an ERA under 4 for the game. Basically 6 IP with 2 ERs or 7+ with 3 ERs.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:13 pm to 1ranter1
Because of the way the qualifications for the HOF are written I'd say excellence over an extended period of time (10 years) is required.
I don't think you need a particular number as much as you need to show your numbers/qualifications are special compared to your peers in the era you played.
I don't think you need a particular number as much as you need to show your numbers/qualifications are special compared to your peers in the era you played.
Posted on 4/8/13 at 8:14 pm to 1ranter1
I think anyone over 200 W's needs to be at least in the conversation.
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