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WHIP doesn't include Hit by Pitch
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:08 pm
This has to be the dumbest stat problem I've ever heard. Does anyone have a good explanation for why they wouldn't want hit batters to be included in walks plus hits per innings pitched?
7
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:10 pm to SwaggerCopter
because the stat is walks plus hits per innings pitched?
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:11 pm to PillPusher
quote:
because the stat is walks plus hits per innings pitched?
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:11 pm to SwaggerCopter
Because WHIP is a gimmick stat that no one outside of fantasy baseball enthusiasts take seriously. Why spend time tinkering with it? It is what it is.
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:14 pm to SwaggerCopter
I agree with OP in that it'd be a more relevant useful stat if HBP were factored in, but it wouldn't make that much of a difference imo
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:15 pm to SwaggerCopter
"Everything that's not an out per innings pitched".
ENOIP.
ENOIP.
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:37 pm to Baloo
quote:
Because WHIP is a gimmick stat that no one outside of fantasy baseball enthusiasts take seriously. Why spend time tinkering with it? It is what it is.
i gotta call bs on thhis comment. whip is one of the stats that are looked at closely by mlb scouts. they separate hits and walks for their analysis but, over the long haul, these stats and era are the biggies. along with k's per inning of course.
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:39 pm to PrimeTime Money
Wild pitches aren't included either. It still a good stat though. Its not hard to add WP and HBPs to WHIP but its usually not going to be a big difference.
This post was edited on 4/7/13 at 9:33 am
Posted on 4/6/13 at 10:41 pm to LSU GrandDad
Scouts look at walk rates. They look at K rates. They look at AVG allowed. They look, particularly, at K/BB ratio. They do not look at WHIP.
Hit rates for a prospect don't matter a whole lot because it's so reliant on defense, and you have no idea how good the defense is. HR rate is a much bigger indicator. Or GB/FB ratio.
Hit rates for a prospect don't matter a whole lot because it's so reliant on defense, and you have no idea how good the defense is. HR rate is a much bigger indicator. Or GB/FB ratio.
Posted on 4/6/13 at 11:31 pm to Baloo
quote:
Scouts look at walk rates. They look at K rates. They look at AVG allowed. They look, particularly, at K/BB ratio. They do not look at WHIP.
Hit rates for a prospect don't matter a whole lot because it's so reliant on defense, and you have no idea how good the defense is. HR rate is a much bigger indicator. Or GB/FB ratio.
How often you put guys on base doesn't matter?
Posted on 4/7/13 at 9:14 am to SwaggerCopter
If you think of a hit by pitch in the same manner of a batter reaching because of an error then you may see why hit by pitch is not included. Think of it as an "error" (but not scored as an error) by the pitcher.
Posted on 4/7/13 at 9:19 am to SwaggerCopter
HBP's are not included, but intentional walks are.
Posted on 4/7/13 at 9:32 am to MrWiseGuy
Should it include third strike wild pitches then too? 
This post was edited on 4/7/13 at 9:34 am
Posted on 4/7/13 at 9:36 am to LSU GrandDad
quote:
era are the biggies
ERA is a flawed stat too. Let's say the pitcher gets the first two batters and then someone makes an error. The pitcher then walks a couple of guys and gives up 5 hits in a row. All of those runs are "unearned" because they happened after what should have been the third out.
Posted on 4/7/13 at 10:12 am to NOTORlOUSD
Yeah, this whole HBP/WHIP thing has been keeping me awake for years.
Posted on 4/7/13 at 10:25 am to PillPusher
quote:
because the stat is walks plus hits per innings pitched?
HBP is a walk. The term walk covers two things:
hit by pitch
base on balls
The origin of the term 'walk' came from the idea that HBP and BB are the only two times where the batter actually walks to 1B instead of running.
Posted on 4/7/13 at 10:27 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
ERA is a flawed stat too. Let's say the pitcher gets the first two batters and then someone makes an error. The pitcher then walks a couple of guys and gives up 5 hits in a row. All of those runs are "unearned" because they happened after what should have been the third out.
Huh?
Posted on 4/7/13 at 10:29 am to Bestbank Tiger
From a scouting standpoint, ERA isn't THAT important either. It matters, but not as much as we think. The peripherals matter more, as well as a guy's stuff.
Defense s just so unreliable at the lower levels of the minors. It's hard to hold the pitcher accountable for, say, that guy playing third base for the first time in his life because he's been shifted over due to organizational needs or a scout saw something in him to inspire a shift in position.
Defense s just so unreliable at the lower levels of the minors. It's hard to hold the pitcher accountable for, say, that guy playing third base for the first time in his life because he's been shifted over due to organizational needs or a scout saw something in him to inspire a shift in position.
Posted on 4/7/13 at 10:52 am to SwaggerCopter
quote:
This has to be the dumbest stat problem I've ever heard. Does anyone have a good explanation for why they wouldn't want hit batters to be included in walks plus hits per innings pitched?
this is just one stat. It's actually a very good predictive stat. If a guy had a low whip and a high ERA in the previous year he almost always has a better ERA the next year. And conversely, if a player had a high WHIP and low ERA the previous season he almost always has a worse ERA the next season.
also, there's another stat that does include the walks and HBP if that's your thing. Opponents OBP.
This post was edited on 4/7/13 at 10:53 am
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