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re: US Treasury issues guidance on virtual currencies, regulatory details unclear
Posted on 3/19/13 at 10:42 am to WikiTiger
Posted on 3/19/13 at 10:42 am to WikiTiger
quote:Has anyone on this board said otherwise? I don't recall a single post saying or even suggesting that bitcoins are illegal. It's not illegal, just very risky.
translation: Bitcoins are legal to use
Euros are legal to use in the U.S. also, but any entity which processes, accepts deposits or exchanges euros for dollars will be monitored and/or regulated.
quote:It is the beginning of destroying your infamous "it's all anonymous" meme. Exchanges will be required to report transactions or subject to review of their transactions, especially those over a certain amount.
But here on the Money Board, the histrionics among you will certainly predict its doom.
Sellers of goods or services will become subject to tax reporting regs. That will likely eventually include issuing 1099's for certain services, just as it is now for dollars, for bartered transactions or transactions taking place in a foreign currency.
Exchanges which sell bitcoins will eventually be required to report the cost basis for those bitcoins so when the bitcoin owner sells them or uses them, there will be tax reporting requirements on the profitable gains. That will take a while just because the amount of the transactions now are so miniscule that the government's costs to track those transactions are not worth the tax revenue benefits.
But if bitcoin becomes more significant, those reporting requirements WILL happen. If an exchange refuses to track an individual's use, storage or exchange of bitcoins, that exchange will be shut down.
That's not histronics, those are just facts. So when it happens, where are you going to hide then?
0
Posted on 3/19/13 at 10:51 am to WikiTiger
You are either too dumb to get it or too obtuse to acknowledge that the ability to regulate is the ability to remove anonymity from bitcoin ownnership. Just as with the Swiss Banks and their depositors, the businesses that qualify as MSB will have to make their records avaialable to the government. You can pretend you are beyond the reach of authority, but the truth is that bitcoins are on the government's radar, and the regulators will look for reasons to regulate since that increases their power and job security.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 11:06 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
You are either too dumb to get it or too obtuse to acknowledge that the ability to regulate is the ability to remove anonymity from bitcoin ownnership.
Do you people study anything about bitcoin before you make ignorant comments like that?
The regulation of exchanges allows for the anonymity of bitcoins to be removed at that point only.
The triviality of creating new bitcoin addresses and transferring bitcoins to them makes anonymity and/or plausible deniability accessible.
For instance, you buy 100 bitcoins from a regulated exchange. Those bitcoins are sent to 1 bitcoin address. The only record of you possessing those bitcoins is the record the exchange has that says they sent 100 bitcoins to that address.
Once you receive your bitcoins at that address, you could easily split them between 100, 1000, even 1 million different addresses if you so choose.
Or, even better, you could use a tumbler or mixing service if you wanted.
All these threads prove to me is that most of y'all lack the ability to understand the technical details of the technology and that limits your ability to discuss the topic effectively.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 11:10 am to WikiTiger
quote:There you go again, Mr. Stanford. We are just so dumb we don't understand the brilliance of your investment scheme which collapsed and cost innocent people their life savings.
All these threads prove to me is that most of y'all lack the ability to understand the technical details of the technology and that limits your ability to discuss the topic effectively.
quote:That's the way it is NOW. You of all people should recognize that change is inevitable. Tracking of all bitcoin transactions is coming. Brace for it.
For instance, you buy 100 bitcoins from a regulated exchange. Those bitcoins are sent to 1 bitcoin address. The only record of you possessing those bitcoins is the record the exchange has that says they sent 100 bitcoins to that address.
Once you receive your bitcoins at that address, you could easily split them between 100, 1000, even 1 million different addresses if you so choose.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 12:44 pm to LSURussian
I don't understand all the hate for Bitcoin. Is it actual hate for Bitcoin itself and what it represents, or is it hate for Wiki?
I have followed these threads consistently and admit I am still ignorant of many things Bitcoin, but why so much hate for the thought of an unregulated currency?
And for those that think it's bullshite because it isn't "backed" by any tangible thing, our currency is backed by nothing more than false promises. The only thing that makes it "valuable" is because we think it's valuable, no difference than Bitcoin.
I have followed these threads consistently and admit I am still ignorant of many things Bitcoin, but why so much hate for the thought of an unregulated currency?
And for those that think it's bullshite because it isn't "backed" by any tangible thing, our currency is backed by nothing more than false promises. The only thing that makes it "valuable" is because we think it's valuable, no difference than Bitcoin.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 12:46 pm to rintintin
i dont think it's hate. i think it is skepticism to their actual utility and long-term viability
Posted on 3/19/13 at 12:49 pm to rintintin
quote:I don't hate bitcoin or wiki. I just think this is a scam that is going to collapse and leave some people hurting who thought they had a sure thing from reading wiki's posts.
I don't understand all the hate for Bitcoin. Is it actual hate for Bitcoin itself and what it represents, or is it hate for Wiki?
I've responded similarly when someone has touted some obscure penny stock on this board.
quote:That's not correct. The dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. That ain't "nothing."
our currency is backed by nothing
The only thing that makes it "valuable" is because we think it's valuable
Bitcoin is truly backed by nothing.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 1:03 pm to LSURussian
quote:
That's not correct. The dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. That ain't "nothing."
Well that's a whole different topic, we can save that for the poli board.
I understand the risk of it, and the possibility (or inevitability) of its collapse, but Wiki is doing nothing different than people who praise certain stocks, or try to predict the market. It's all risky, and all could result in someone losing money, but for the people capable of "mining" Bitcoin it risks nothing but time. I doubt anyone here is seriously going to invest thousands of US dollars into Bitcoin. If they do, that's their problem and nobody can be blamed but themselves.
There is a thread on the board (not sure if it's trolling or not) about someone who invested in Iraqi Dinar, and he's not receiving a tenth of the hate Wiki receives. Pretty silly IMO.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 1:12 pm to rintintin
Posted on 3/19/13 at 1:13 pm to rintintin
quote:Agreed. But you brought it up so I responded.
we can save that for the poli board.
quote:Which is not allowed on this board. Or, at least it used to be not allowed. Chicken would intervene with a post whenever he thought someone was touting a stock too much.
Wiki is doing nothing different than people who praise certain stocks,
quote:True, along with the $650 hardware wiki says is required to mine "efficiently."
for the people capable of "mining" Bitcoin it risks nothing but time.
wiki encourages people not to mine bitcoins (he says he has never mined bitcoins) but to BUY bitcoins. That is what drives up the price of BC, which benefits him.
quote:If he started a thread or replied to a dinar thread almost weekly touting the dinar, you would see a difference in the replies he gets. Besides, I think his thread was tongue in cheek, IOW, a funny troll attempt.
There is a thread on the board (not sure if it's trolling or not) about someone who invested in Iraqi Dinar, and he's not receiving a tenth of the hate Wiki receives.
quote:I agree and I disagree. Some people believe anything they read on the internet. For example, I bet you didn't know in my spare time I'm a French male model.....
I doubt anyone here is seriously going to invest thousands of US dollars into Bitcoin. If they do, that's their problem and nobody can be blamed but themselves.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 1:22 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
The regulation of exchanges allows for the anonymity of bitcoins to be removed at that point only.
So if somebody wanted to track them they couldn't? I doesn't seem like tracking A to B to C and so on would be very hard if somebody wanted to.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 1:25 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:Bingo. We are constantly being told of all the wonderful characteristics of bitcoins. When we point out that some of those characteristics are non-existant, or subject to future regulation, it is not hating on bitcoins. It is questioning the claimed advantages of bitcoins over traditional currency, and raising questions about the viability of bitcoins as a currency or medium of exchange.
i dont think it's hate. i think it is skepticism to their actual utility and long-term viability
Posted on 3/19/13 at 1:36 pm to LSURussian
quote:
True, along with the $650 hardware wiki says is required to mine "efficiently." wiki encourages people not to mine bitcoins (he says he has never mined bitcoins) but to BUY bitcoins. That is what drives up the price of BC, which benefits him.
Which I think steers people away from it even more knowing how much trouble it is to actually mine it.
And I've never seen Wiki literally say to buy Bitcoin, I could be wrong, but I've read many of these threads.
quote:
If he started a thread or replied to a dinar thread almost weekly touting the dinar, you would see a difference in the replies he gets. Besides, I think his thread was tongue in cheek, IOW, a funny troll attempt.
True, but Bitcoin is a very intriguing topic right now, whether you agree with it or not. Every thread about it seems to go multiple pages and spurs intense debate, which is the point of a message board IMO. Being that it is a novel concept, not many people are familiar with it, and as these threads have illustrated people have become intrigued with it.
quote:
I agree and I disagree. Some people believe anything they read on the internet. For example, I bet you didn't know in my spare time I'm a French male model.....
No shite? That's quite a repertoire, male model and financial guru.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 1:44 pm to rintintin
quote:
And I've never seen Wiki literally say to buy Bitcoin,
BITCOIN IS UP TO $XX.XX TODAY, ANOTHER 10%!!!
How would you interpret that? Substitute "gold" for "BITCOIN" and what would you think the poster is trying to say?
quote:It's novel in its technological approach but Ponzi schemes have been around since, well.......Charlie Ponzi pulled off the first one.
Being that it is a novel concept
quote:That's French, right???
That's quite a repertoire,
Posted on 3/19/13 at 1:53 pm to rintintin
quote:
And I've never seen Wiki literally say to buy Bitcoin, I could be wrong, but I've read many of these threads.
I constantly say don't mine them and don't buy them. I couldn't be more clear. Some people here would prefer to silence me by twisting what I say as somehow being against the rules.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 1:55 pm to LSURussian
Posted on 3/19/13 at 2:00 pm to WikiTiger
quote:You're being deceitful.
I constantly say don't mine them and don't buy them.
quote:I bet there are some people who wish someone had silenced Bernie Madoff and Allen Stanford early on....
Some people here would prefer to silence me
Posted on 3/19/13 at 2:05 pm to TigerDeBaiter
quote:
So if somebody wanted to track them they couldn't?
All bitcoin transaction are 100% public. You can go and look at every transaction in history.
This site will help you: https://blockchain.info/
Here you can watch transactions as they are made: https://www.bitcoinmonitor.com/
So, to answer your question: Could forensic software be utilized to examine the blockchain? Sure.
quote:
I doesn't seem like tracking A to B to C and so on would be very hard if somebody wanted to.
But this is where examining the blockchain becomes difficult.
For instance, if a regulated exchange reported that they sent 100 bitcoins to your address, but you then sent 20 bitcoins to another address, there is no way to tell if you sent it to another person/company or if you simply sent it to another address that you own. So that's where plausible deniability comes in.
But not only that, there are tumbler functions and washing sites out there that will completed break the links your bitcoins have to any exchange.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 2:09 pm to WikiTiger
quote:As with almost all IRS situations, the burden of proof will be on the taxpayer, not the government.
So that's where plausible deniability comes in.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 2:21 pm to WikiTiger
All I'm saying is, if these were used to fund some sort of terrorist operation, chances are the CIA or somebody's going to be knocking on your door.
If you're not "up to no good", what's the big deal about anonymity? Google probably tracks everything I buy online already.
If you're not "up to no good", what's the big deal about anonymity? Google probably tracks everything I buy online already.
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