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re: New LT and experienced 3-4OLB Plan
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:29 pm to bbrownso
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:29 pm to bbrownso
good Kruger info. link please
I'm all for Galette/Wilson at OLB. That's a lot of inexperience to bet on though. I like them with a veteran add. Beyond spendy Kruger or Spencer there are some in the free agent LB thread.
I'm on the Shaun Phillips and Victor Butler bandwagon for affordable free agent additions. One of those with Galette/Wilson might be enough nucleus to go OLB from.
Then you could look elsewhere in the draft. Safety Kenny Vaccaro and NT John Jenkins are two guys that could be had by trading down 10 spots and picking up a 2nd Rd pick. Either of them would be day one starters IMO.
I'm all for Galette/Wilson at OLB. That's a lot of inexperience to bet on though. I like them with a veteran add. Beyond spendy Kruger or Spencer there are some in the free agent LB thread.
I'm on the Shaun Phillips and Victor Butler bandwagon for affordable free agent additions. One of those with Galette/Wilson might be enough nucleus to go OLB from.
Then you could look elsewhere in the draft. Safety Kenny Vaccaro and NT John Jenkins are two guys that could be had by trading down 10 spots and picking up a 2nd Rd pick. Either of them would be day one starters IMO.
2
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:30 pm to bbrownso
quote:
Considering we have two of the most effective rush per play players (according to PFF), maybe we should give them a shot since they're already here and we don't have much money to spend in free agency
Exactly. Everyone keeps saying a pass rusher is the biggest need. A pure pass rusher was the biggest need in our 4-3 defense because the 2 best pure pass rushers couldn't get on the field because of Smith and Jordan. A major reason for switching to a 3-4 is to get Junior and Tez, the 2 best pure pass rushers, on the field in a defense that fits them.
Bushrod is not worth the money he will want. Biggest need is OT. If you can replace the money Bushrod wants with a better left tackle for much less money in the first round, that should be the pick. That would be huge for the team and the salary cap. I'm not sure someone like Dion Jordan is even an upgrade over Junior and Tez.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:35 pm to bbrownso
quote:
Free agent OLB Paul Kruger amassed just 1.5 sacks in six games ahead of Terrell Suggs' 2012 return from Achilles' surgery, before closing out the season with 7.5 sacks across the final eight games with Suggs in the lineup.
Kruger also had 4.5 sacks in Baltimore's four playoff wins, all with Suggs aligned opposite him. It's worth debating whether Kruger's production was at least partially a product of Suggs commanding increased defensive attention. We fully expect 26-year-old Kruger to command a massive free-agent deal, but the sack statistics suggest he's more of a complementary than franchise pass rusher.
That does sound sort of Ray Edwardsish, doesn't it?
This post was edited on 2/10/13 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:36 pm to blueslover
Blues, I like your ideas much better than the "pass rusher is our biggest need" stuff. Signing a vet like Shaun Phillips for cheap to put in a rotation is a much better option than spending our first round pick on a "potential" guy when there are 2 young guys on the team already that may be better than anyone you may draft to play that OLB position.
Also like your Vaccaro or Jenkins idea. OT, safety, and NT or the biggest needs in my opinion. I've liked Vaccaro for the Saints for a while. They may be able to get someone like Rambo later in the draft though.
Also like your Vaccaro or Jenkins idea. OT, safety, and NT or the biggest needs in my opinion. I've liked Vaccaro for the Saints for a while. They may be able to get someone like Rambo later in the draft though.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:41 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
If you can replace the money Bushrod wants with a better left tackle for much less money in the first round, that should be the pick
Or a much more cap accommodating veteran such as Bryant McKinnie.
Or the true wildcard in Charles Brown. They may have design to stick him at LT. We haven't see enough evidence to speculate such tho. I've pointed out however that we saw even less of Bushrod than Brown before he was inserted as the LT starter.
quote:
I'm not sure someone like Dion Jordan is even an upgrade over Junior and Tez.
That is possible. I hope so. But it is more hope than proven product to make those guys write-in starters. I'd love to have an abundance of 3-4OLB rush guys for competition. Wilson, Galette, a draftee added (even if a 3rd Rder like Lemonier or Brandon Jenkins), and a vet like Shaun Phillips would be a studly start for our shiny new 3-4.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:51 pm to blueslover
Yeah, I'm fine with them using a later pick on an OLB for competition. Just think there are bigger needs for that first rounder than to be using it for a player that may not even be an upgrade over what we have. A guy like Jenkins later in the draft is probably a much better value pick than drafting someone like Jordan in the first round.
Only guy I think I would be okay with them taking at that position with the first round pick is Mingo. I think that guy will be special in a 3-4 defense.
Only guy I think I would be okay with them taking at that position with the first round pick is Mingo. I think that guy will be special in a 3-4 defense.
This post was edited on 2/10/13 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 2/10/13 at 2:57 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
that may not even be an upgrade over what we have.
The scouting grade is THE deal maker/breaker. If you rate Jordan in the Aldon Smith-JPP- Bruce Irvin immediate high impact player you jump at him. Those are rare. If he's more towards Jerry Hughes-Larry English develop and he might get there then pass. That's where the guys that get paid to do that for a living trump over our fan's eyes and reading draft blogs insight.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:02 pm to blueslover
quote:
good Kruger info. link please
I first saw it on rotoworld.com but here is the originating link:
Seattle Times
I wouldn't mind a trade down since the Saints should be in a good spot value-wise for other teams to grab someone who had dropped. We have plenty of other spots where the Saints could use younger players developing over the next few years.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:03 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
If you can replace the money Bushrod wants with a better left tackle for much less money in the first round, that should be the pick.
I very much agree. And with all of the speculation over getting more rush olb's, I feel like we might need another 3 down backer or two. Maybe that would be Casillas, Chamberlain or Vilma if he were kept around. But everybody can't just rush the qb or play the run.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:04 pm to blueslover
Gtfo with any talk of any offense in the first. ESPECIALLY offensive line
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:12 pm to SaintLSUnAtl
good case made 
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:15 pm to blueslover
I agree. That's why I listed Mingo as the exception. I think he is that immediate impact guy who will be special. Don't see that in a guy like Jordan. Wasn't Jenkins a higher rated prospect than someone like Jordan before Jenkins had injury problems?
Draft is all about finding great value. A first round prospect who dropped because of injury is good value. Sean Porter is another guy I like in the later rounds. I don't know where he would play, but I saw reports listing him as a top ten pick early in the season. Now he can be had in the third or fourth round potentially.
Draft is all about finding great value. A first round prospect who dropped because of injury is good value. Sean Porter is another guy I like in the later rounds. I don't know where he would play, but I saw reports listing him as a top ten pick early in the season. Now he can be had in the third or fourth round potentially.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:18 pm to SaintLSUnAtl
So who plays LT next year? Bushrod is not worth the money he will want. If you hit on a legit LT with that 15 pick, that is a franchise changer because of the contract.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:24 pm to landrywasbeast30
A tackle is never a franchise changer. Don't kid yourself.
Ask the Dolphins how much Jake Long has changed their franchise. And he's a stud
Ask the Dolphins how much Jake Long has changed their franchise. And he's a stud
This post was edited on 2/10/13 at 3:24 pm
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:31 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:
Don't see that in a guy like Jordan
that could be. Jordan then also could be da bomb.
2009 a great example for LBs-
#5 Aaron Curry already has been a washout in Seattle
#13 Orakpo has been solid and good so far. Not all world but worth the pick
#15 Brian Cushing- solid good too, more problems with injuries than performance
#16 Larry English nearing full fledged bust status if not already there
#26 Clay Matthews- BOOM he leaps the 4 guys rated ahead of him and is an immediate NFL playmaker
I don't profess to be armchair scout extraordinaire so this is where we have to trust the front office and their draft room decisions. There's prolly as much luck as skill involved. Like Colston, or as belichick said about Brady... sumpin like- if we had any idea he would be anywhere near as good as he turned out we wouldn't have waited until the 5th rd to take him.
Like 7th Rd Colston, 4th Rd Evans, 5th Rd Nicks, & 3rd Rd Graham it would be a giant boost to get just one defensive player near that stature in the 3rd Rd or later.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:31 pm to SaintLSUnAtl
quote:
A tackle is never a franchise changer
Let C. Brown be relied on to protect Brees' blind side all year and we'll probably see a major franchise change when Brees is in traction.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:35 pm to SaintLSUnAtl
I specifically said it is a franchise changer "because of the contract". Even a mediocre free agent replacement may cost much more than the guy you get with that 15 pick. And that mediocre replacement doesn't have a chance to be great like the player you get at 15.
As for Jake Long, I never said LT is more important than QB.
As for Jake Long, I never said LT is more important than QB.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 3:39 pm to blueslover
You are proving my point. I think they could get a guy in the later rounds that is better than someone like Jordan. You already listed guys like Lemonier and Jenkins. I like both of those guys better than Jordan. Either way, we are really just disagreeing on something neither of us know the answer to lol.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 4:00 pm to landrywasbeast30
as to LT it can be a franchise anchor. A secure blindside behind a Roaf for ten plus years is huge.
Long has lost a lotta juice from injuries not game. He was that type of guy before the injuries.
For myself I've wondered how much better the run game would be with better tackles. Bushrod scores above avg as a pass defender but only avg at very best in the run game.
good quote-
This isn't Madden where ya look at a guys rating and plug him in. The Saints approach to OL is a little diff but don't let that make you think LT is just a filler position from whoever ya have on the roster.
Long has lost a lotta juice from injuries not game. He was that type of guy before the injuries.
For myself I've wondered how much better the run game would be with better tackles. Bushrod scores above avg as a pass defender but only avg at very best in the run game.
good quote-
quote:
Let C. Brown be relied on to protect Brees' blind side all year and we'll probably see a major franchise change when Brees is in traction.
This isn't Madden where ya look at a guys rating and plug him in. The Saints approach to OL is a little diff but don't let that make you think LT is just a filler position from whoever ya have on the roster.
Posted on 2/10/13 at 4:03 pm to blueslover
quote:
This isn't Madden where ya look at a guys rating and plug him in. The Saints approach to OL is a little diff but don't let that make you think LT is just a filler position from whoever ya have on the roster.
Huh? What are you talking about?
This post was edited on 2/10/13 at 4:15 pm
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