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Dresden Files: Cold Days Discussion (Spoilers)
Posted on 12/16/12 at 8:16 pm
Posted on 12/16/12 at 8:16 pm
So.
There goes the traditional detective novels methinks.
Nothing like White Night and Turn Coat, at least.
The series begins the ramp up to the Apocolypse trilogy from now.
One things that is really bugging me though.
They made it clear that Outsiders are fairly hard to summon, requiring mortal magic, and specifically mortal magic to happen.
And Harry doesn't even wonder where an army of them comes from?
There goes the traditional detective novels methinks.
Nothing like White Night and Turn Coat, at least.
The series begins the ramp up to the Apocolypse trilogy from now.
One things that is really bugging me though.
They made it clear that Outsiders are fairly hard to summon, requiring mortal magic, and specifically mortal magic to happen.
And Harry doesn't even wonder where an army of them comes from?
3
Posted on 12/16/12 at 8:30 pm to Siderophore
I was waiting for him to release something from the prison the whole time.
I assume you know what he was doing with the limb @ the end?
I assume you know what he was doing with the limb @ the end?
Posted on 12/16/12 at 8:36 pm to LordSnow
I assumed he was begining to remake some of his implements....either his staff or blasting rod.
Was there something else?
Was there something else?
Posted on 12/16/12 at 8:50 pm to Siderophore
quote:
And Harry doesn't even wonder where an army of them comes from?
To be fair, he didn't really have a bunch of spare time to think on who was behind the whole thing outside of Maeve herself. And it's not like Maeve wasn't capable of having her own group of mortal magic users.
And yeah, agreed on the detective part going away for the most part. Which is fine by me, I prefer the plots oriented books more myself (though I did enjoy Turn Coat and White Night immensely).
It was nice seeing Harry and Thomas back to a more normal brother interaction. And nice to see Harry called out for his hypocrisy.
Posted on 12/16/12 at 9:08 pm to auyushu
Well I mean it only took him 14 books to really get to the point of the plot 
There are approximately 25 planned total.
But it's not just Harry though.
The entire plot point seemed to be just ignored.
Keeping something like this from happening is the entire job of the Gatekeeper, but nothing much is done regarding an entire army of outsiders?
That gives them PLENTY of opportunity for the adversary to infect more people from which to plot "behind enemy lines."
There are approximately 25 planned total.
But it's not just Harry though.
The entire plot point seemed to be just ignored.
Keeping something like this from happening is the entire job of the Gatekeeper, but nothing much is done regarding an entire army of outsiders?
That gives them PLENTY of opportunity for the adversary to infect more people from which to plot "behind enemy lines."
Posted on 12/16/12 at 9:14 pm to Siderophore
Finishing up dark tower series now then I'm gonna start on the dresden files. I take it these books are pretty good.
Posted on 12/16/12 at 9:16 pm to bulldog95
Much better than the Dark Tower.
So, I guess Harry will finally bone Molly. Oh, and how the hell is he going to explain this to Michael?
So, I guess Harry will finally bone Molly. Oh, and how the hell is he going to explain this to Michael?
Posted on 12/16/12 at 11:18 pm to Siderophore
quote:
Keeping something like this from happening is the entire job of the Gatekeeper, but nothing much is done regarding an entire army of outsiders?
Ehh, The Gatekeeper was kinda busy at the Gate, which was his real job IMO. Not like he could just skip off from the full scale assault that was going on in Fairie.
I mean, not sure what you expect him to do really. Even if Harry did know the black council was responsible, there isn't much he could do about it since for one he has no idea where they are, and two most of the black council guys could kick his arse pretty easily.
I guess you could say he should have called on his grandfather, but the entire book took place in like a little over 24 hours. The Gatekeeper definitely wouldn't have had any time to go running off into the real world and help Harry, he said as much himself when Harry met him.
Not to mention who knows what he might be able to do anyway, Eb, Liberty, and Injun Joe would have gotten killed by Outsiders in Proven Guilty if Michael hadn't saved their asses. The wizards would probably have to gear up most of the Council to take them on, and they were all in Europe screwing around with the Fomor.
Posted on 12/16/12 at 11:20 pm to PurpleandGold Motown
quote:
So, I guess Harry will finally bone Molly. Oh, and how the hell is he going to explain this to Michael?
Gonna be pretty interesting and cool to see Molly's development now. Much like with everything else between Michael and Harry, I think Michael will react fairly calmly to the news. His wife on the other hand...
Posted on 12/16/12 at 11:48 pm to auyushu
quote:
Even if Harry did know the black council was responsible, there isn't much he could do about it since for one he has no idea where they are, and two most of the black council guys could kick his arse pretty easily.
I'm not so sure this is true anymore. Harry is capable of going toe-to-toe with some big bads now. He Who Walks Before is not a little guy. I think the Black Council are very afraid of what the new and improved(?) Harry can do.
Nicodemus is one of my favorite baddies, but I wonder what he can actual do to Harry now.
This post was edited on 12/16/12 at 11:56 pm
Posted on 12/17/12 at 12:13 am to PurpleandGold Motown
quote:
I'm not so sure this is true anymore. Harry is capable of going toe-to-toe with some big bads now. He Who Walks Before is not a little guy. I think the Black Council are very afraid of what the new and improved(?) Harry can do.
Nicodemus is one of my favorite baddies, but I wonder what he can actual do to Harry now.
True, if he went full on winter knight and had some prep time probably he could go toe to toe with Cowl to a certain extent.
Nicodemus is probably scared silly of Harry these days, but without a sword to protect Harry from Nic's shadow/demon I think he could probably still smack Harry around a fair bit.
Posted on 12/17/12 at 12:20 am to auyushu
Speaking of Nicodemus...
Is he Judas? I always thought he was--especially given his one weakness. The tie or noose around his neck always reminded me of how Judas Iscariot went out.
Is he Judas? I always thought he was--especially given his one weakness. The tie or noose around his neck always reminded me of how Judas Iscariot went out.
Posted on 12/17/12 at 12:34 am to PurpleandGold Motown
How many books before Lash and the coins come back into play you think?
Posted on 12/17/12 at 12:42 am to LordSnow
Should be the next book. Nicodemus and the Denarians show up every 5 books. Next book is 15 right?
Butcher made the comment that Nick would show up,"on schedule."
ETA: I would actually be interested to see the Winter Court and the Denarians working together. Maybe Harry would be forced to work with Nick and we could learn a bit more about him, before Harry double crosses him.
Butcher made the comment that Nick would show up,"on schedule."
ETA: I would actually be interested to see the Winter Court and the Denarians working together. Maybe Harry would be forced to work with Nick and we could learn a bit more about him, before Harry double crosses him.
This post was edited on 12/17/12 at 12:44 am
Posted on 12/17/12 at 12:49 am to auyushu
quote:
Ehh, The Gatekeeper was kinda busy at the Gate, which was his real job IMO.
So while he was making sure that nothing snuck in one of the Sidhe, he was ignoring full scale backdoor tunnel?
That's like making sure the hay doesn't catch a spark while the entire barn is already ablaze.
quote:
I mean, not sure what you expect him to do really.
Even assuming that he was being used in actual defense of the gate (his actual purpose was not clear), and he was just leaving it up to Dresden to "hold up his side," don't you think he would have told Dresden about the threat being posed by whoever is summoning Outsiders en masse? Also remember that this happened before the meeting with Dresden?
I'm sorry, but the far more likely response is that while Butcher is an improving writer, meticulous he ain't. And the side effect of a tangential plot point he already established probably didn't occur to him.
Posted on 12/17/12 at 12:51 am to Siderophore
I will need to reread to fully understand the points you are trying to make, but doesn't Rashid--for lack of a better word--live outside of time. He doesn't view the world in a lineal sense anymore. He might not follow the same line of cause and effect as the average human does.
Posted on 12/17/12 at 1:27 am to PurpleandGold Motown
quote:
but doesn't Rashid--for lack of a better word--live outside of time. He doesn't view the world in a lineal sense anymore.
This is indicated nowhere, and plenty of evidence exists to the contrary.
If anything, he is hyperaware of time.
You might be thinking of Proven Guilty when he was intentionally vague in his statement to Dresden to avoid a temporal paradox.
Posted on 12/17/12 at 7:37 am to auyushu
quote:
and they were all in Europe screwing around with the Fomor.
I'm seeing the Fomor as a distraction, something to keep the Council occupied while the adversary infiltrates them.
Posted on 12/17/12 at 8:02 am to Siderophore
Just finished it yesterday.
Did anyone else wonder why 'The Swords' were referred to as many times as they were. It stands to reason that this wasn't a fight that those swords needed to be in, but Dresden seemed to focus some time on them.
Does anyone have any clues to who the new 'Bearers' of the swords may be? Will they be someone we already know, or will they be someone that will be introduced later?
Did anyone else wonder why 'The Swords' were referred to as many times as they were. It stands to reason that this wasn't a fight that those swords needed to be in, but Dresden seemed to focus some time on them.
Does anyone have any clues to who the new 'Bearers' of the swords may be? Will they be someone we already know, or will they be someone that will be introduced later?
Posted on 12/17/12 at 11:43 am to Siderophore
quote:
Even assuming that he was being used in actual defense of the gate (his actual purpose was not clear), and he was just leaving it up to Dresden to "hold up his side," don't you think he would have told Dresden about the threat being posed by whoever is summoning Outsiders en masse? Also remember that this happened before the meeting with Dresden?
I mean, I know Rashid is a badass and all, but I think you are going a bit far thinking that he would or should know that these outsiders were running around in the human world before Harry visited him, much less who was sending them. He literally had no way of knowing this was happening. And based on his conversation with Harry at the Gate he had no clue the entire thing was going on in Winter with Maeve and Mab at all, much less anything deeper than that.
So the first he hears of it is when Harry meets him, which is during the midst of a massive battle where he is needed in the focus of his primary job and can't leave. It's more of trusting Harry to get things done while he handles his job, he can't be everywhere at once.
In the larger scheme of things a few outsiders running around on earth would be small potatoes compared to the Gates falling and letting all of them in and destroying the world.
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