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Jbird 
Iowa Fan
Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
4967 posts
| Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 9:55 am)
President Barack Obama and House Speaker John Boehner are fighting over the fiscal cliff endgame, but that doesn’t mean they’ve agreed on where to start.
The White House wants more than $1 trillion in spending cuts that were approved last year counted toward the goal of a $4 trillion deficit-reduction package, since the cuts were part of a deal that set the stage for the fiscal cliff debate in the first place.
But Republicans say that’s double counting. Obama approved those cuts in exchange for raising the debt ceiling and shouldn’t get to apply them here.
Agreeing on a baseline probably won’t be the make-or-break moment in the fiscal cliff talks, but that doesn’t mean the numbers are insignificant.
LINK
This post was edited on 12/12 at 10:00 am
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BlackHelicopterPilot 
LSU Fan
Top secret lab
Member since Feb 2004
26501 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 9:57 am to Jbird)
JEEBUS!!
Just keep cutting until there is no deficit. Then let THAT be the starting point
This post was edited on 12/12 at 9:59 am
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Rickety Cricket 
Navy Fan
Premium Member
Member since Aug 2007
25922 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 9:58 am to Jbird)
You have to go BACKWARD before you can go FORWARD!
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Meauxjeaux 
Memphis Fan
I have 91k posts with all my alters
Member since Jun 2005
13038 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 10:06 am to Jbird)
Can we count the George HW "read my lips no new taxes" Bush tax increases on our side of the fiscal cliff negotiating ledger?
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LSURussian
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
63211 posts
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quote:
JEEBUS!!
Just keep cutting until there is no deficit. Then let THAT be the starting point
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davesdawgs 
Georgia Fan
Georgia
Member since Oct 2008
10999 posts
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quote:
JEEBUS!!
Just keep cutting until there is no deficit. Then let THAT be the starting point
BHP, you obviously have too much common sense. Seek treatment. Forward!! 
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16738 posts
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quote:
Just keep cutting until there is no deficit. Then let THAT be the starting point
It isn't complicated, is it?
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pistolpete23 
USA Fan
In the present
Member since Dec 2007
3072 posts
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quote:
Just keep cutting until there is no deficit. Then let THAT be the starting point
Mother frickin this!!!
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16738 posts
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The stark contrast between...
quote:
The White House wants more than $1 trillion in spending cuts that were approved last year counted toward the goal of a $4 trillion deficit-reduction package, since the cuts were part of a deal that set the stage for the fiscal cliff debate in the first place.
and...
quote:
Just keep cutting until there is no deficit. Then let THAT be the starting point
... should tell even the most devoted Obama acolyte that he's interested in creating the most dramatic soundbite ("I've cut the budget by XXXX") not in solving the actual problem.
This post was edited on 12/12 at 11:18 am
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TupeloTiger
LSU Fan
Tupelo,Ms.[via Bastrop,La.]
Member since Jul 2004
2195 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:03 pm to Taxing Authority)
They are not cutting the budget, they are only cutting the increase. Example- The budget goes up 7% then cut the increase back to 4%, that's not a cut,it's a incease of 4%. Old Union/Democrat annual budget trick they use. I'll never forget when I was a Senator, the state employee union came to me to vote for the emloyees part of the Dept. of Education from $900,000,000 to $970,000,000. We deduced the incease down to $940,000,000. They called that a cut,but, it was really an increase of 40 million. It was only a cut in their request, not a cut in the budget. So, they lied about me at re-election and said over and over that I cut Education. I didn't, I voted to increase the Budget 40 million. But the teachers,etc. believed the union campaign lies that I cut Ed.. I didn't. I won anyway. That's what Obama is doing. He raises the Budget more that a trillion ,then cuts the increase back a trillion.That's an increase. Debt goes from 10.6 Tril. to 16 tril. and that's a cut, not so.
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PsychTiger
LSU Fan
Land Mass
Member since Jul 2004
15927 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 12:23 pm to davesdawgs)
quote:
BHP, you obviously have too much common sense. Seek treatment. Forward!!
The treatment will eventually seek him if things continue on their present course. Forward !
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Jacuzzitub
LSU Fan
San Diego
Member since Mar 2008
283 posts
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quote:
JEEBUS!!
Just keep cutting until there is no deficit. Then let THAT be the starting point
Since this comment is getting so much praise, I thought I'd inject some reality into this.
For Fiscal Year 2013, mandatory spending is budgeted at $2.3 trillion. This is money we've already spent, mostly on Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. It can't be cut. Discretionary spending for 2013 is budgeted at $1.5 trillion. Total revenue is budgeted at $2.9 trillion. So, after both mandatory and discretionary spending, we're dealing with a $900 billion deficit.
Of the $1.5 trillion in discretionary spending budgeted for 2013, what would you cut? Here are your choices (figures in billions):
DoD $666.2 (Basically the whole military. Mandatory DoD spending is only $6.7)
Health and Human Services $80.6 (note: this pays to administer $860.3 in mandatory Medicare/Medicaid benefits, so cutting would be very difficult)
Department of Education $67.7
Department of Veterans Affairs $60.4
Department of Housing and Urban Development $41.1
Department of State and Other International Programs $56.1
Department of Homeland Security $54.9
Department of Energy $35.6
Department of Justice $23.9
Department of Agriculture $26.8
NASA $17.8
National Intelligence Programs $52.6
Department of Transportation $24.0
Department of the Treasury $14.1
Department of the Interior $12.3
Department of Labor $13.2
Social Security Administration $11.7 (note: similar to DHHS, this pays to administer $871 in mandatory Social Security benefits, so again cutting it would be very difficult)
Department of Commerce $9.5
Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works $8.2
Environmental Protection Agency $9.2
National Science Foundation $7.4
Small Business Administration $1.4
So...what do you cut?
This post was edited on 12/12 at 1:51 pm
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pistolpete23
USA Fan
In the present
Member since Dec 2007
3072 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 1:58 pm to Jacuzzitub)
quote:
For Fiscal Year 2013, mandatory spending is budgeted at $2.3 trillion. This is money we've already spent, mostly on Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. It can't be cut. Discretionary spending for 2013 is budgeted at $1.5 trillion. Total revenue is budgeted at $2.9 trillion. So, after both mandatory and discretionary spending, we're dealing with a $900 billion deficit.
Please link us to this Budget you speak of.... cuz the senate has not passed one in nearly 5yrs.
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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
12697 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 2:04 pm to Jacuzzitub)
quote:
Health and Human Services $80.6 (note: this pays to administer $860.3 in mandatory Medicare/Medicaid benefits, so cutting would be very difficult)
So we need to spend $80.6 billion to administer programs thast spend $860.3 billion. That is an overhead rate of 9.37%. That is an awfully steep amount of overhead for programs that are as rife with waste, fraud and abuse as Medicare and Medicaid. Why do Demcorats always claim Medicare has an overhead rate of less than 3% when comparing it to private insurance? How can they omit the cost of an entire government department?
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Jacuzzitub
LSU Fan
San Diego
Member since Mar 2008
283 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 2:10 pm to pistolpete23)
quote:
Please link us to this Budget you speak of.... cuz the senate has not passed one in nearly 5yrs.
You're technically correct. A formal budget has not been passed since 2009. Note, however, that I never used the word, "Budget." I said, "budgeted." Even without a formal budget, Congress must still appropriate funds.
Fiscal year 2013 is being funded under House Continuing Resolution 112 and the House Budget Control Act of 2011, also known as the fiscal cliff compromise.
So, here's the link you asked for. From the Library of Congress: HCR 121.
This post was edited on 12/12 at 2:23 pm
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Jacuzzitub
LSU Fan
San Diego
Member since Mar 2008
283 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 2:21 pm to Poodlebrain)
quote:
So we need to spend $80.6 billion to administer programs thast spend $860.3 billion. That is an overhead rate of 9.37%. That is an awfully steep amount of overhead for programs that are as rife with waste, fraud and abuse as Medicare and Medicaid. Why do Demcorats always claim Medicare has an overhead rate of less than 3% when comparing it to private insurance? How can they omit the cost of an entire government department?
I don't want to get argumentative, because I think we agree. My point in posting the 2013 discretionary spending line items was to illustrate just how meaningless deficit discussions are when they don't include serious restructuring of Social Security and Medicare.
However, on the above point you're assuming that Health and Human Services spends its entire $80.7 discretionary budget to administer Medicare/Medicaid. That's simply not true.
I just Googled the 2011 Annual Report of the Boards of Trustees of the Federal Hospital Insurance and Federal Supplementary Medical Insurance Trust Funds, the document prepared by Medicare’s fiscal overseers.
Using this report as an example, the trustees’ summary listed total Medicare expenditures of $522.8 billion of which $7 billion was characterized as "administrative expenses." That works out to 1.3%.
Private health insurers spend about 11% on overhead.
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16738 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 2:25 pm to Jacuzzitub)
quote:
My point in posting the 2013 discretionary spending line items was to illustrate just how meaningless deficit discussions are when they don't include serious restructuring of Social Security and Medicare.
And The President's position?
LINK
quote:
The president will not even discuss Social Security, the White House says, on the ground that it is not a big contributor to the deficit.
This post was edited on 12/12 at 2:26 pm
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pistolpete23
USA Fan
In the present
Member since Dec 2007
3072 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 2:29 pm to Jacuzzitub)
quote:
here's the link you asked for
thanks
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Jacuzzitub
LSU Fan
San Diego
Member since Mar 2008
283 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 2:39 pm to Taxing Authority)
quote:
And The President's position
quote:
The president will not even discuss Social Security, the White House says, on the ground that it is not a big contributor to the deficit.
I'm not trying to walk back my comment about the need to address systemic issues with Social Security, but the president is technically correct.
Back to fiscal year 2013. Social Security taxes are expected to generate $959 billion in revenue while paying out $871 in benefits. So, technically speaking, Social Security benefits do not contribute to the deficit.
The problem starts when we lump Social Security revenue in with the general fund and use it to pay for other stuff. So, while not an issue presently, the bomb is waiting down the road when Social Security becomes insolvent in 2037.
I'd like to see the president agree to a raise in the retirement age for anyone presently under 35. I'm optimistic he'll come around.
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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
16738 posts
| re: Obama wants to count last years cuts? (Posted on 12/12/12 at 2:41 pm to Jacuzzitub)
quote:
the president is technically correct.
Back to fiscal year 2013. Social Security taxes are expected to generate $959 billion in revenue while paying out $871 in benefits. So, technically speaking, Social Security benefits do not contribute to the deficit.
False. Because each of the dollars have a future payout attached. To evaluate honestly you must examine the NPV of future payouts and analyze accordingly.
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