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re: If you go back in time and kill yourself, what happens? A movie board discussion
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:48 pm to Jahel
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:48 pm to Jahel
quote:
guys goes back in time
he succeeds and splits off to another timeline
but when he gets back, he notices something drastic has changed because he wasn't around
so he goes back in time to kill himself, before he can kill himself
Holy frick, makes me think of that Family Guy episode
2
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:48 pm to Jahel
quote:
okay, then what about this
guy goes back to kill himself
he succeeds and splits off to another timeline
but when he gets back, he notices something drastic has changed because he wasn't around
so he goes back in time to kill himself, before he can kill himself
how many times can he keep doing this?
Love this concept, easy out answer, FORREVEERRR.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:49 pm to Camnola
In my opinion, just by traveling back to the past has already altered it significantly enough to create a new timeline.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:50 pm to Camnola
But honestly, if changing the past is possible, you would be an absolute fool to go back in time before you're born. Change the action of one person, from as something as subtle as bumping into them in the hallway, it will cause a chain reaction, that will affect how he reacts to people around him, and thus they will slightly modify their behavior as well.
A slight modification may not seem like much, but what if it leads to your father thrusting at a different time when he impregnates your mother? You will cease to either exist or immediately turn into a completely different individual. This chain reaction makes traveling back through time risky.
The further you go back in time, the bigger the change will be to the present day you are from. For instance, merely going back and having a long conversation with Hitler's father should be enough to make sure Hitler isn't ever born (assuming we aren't going off of Theory #3 and that always happened).
A slight modification may not seem like much, but what if it leads to your father thrusting at a different time when he impregnates your mother? You will cease to either exist or immediately turn into a completely different individual. This chain reaction makes traveling back through time risky.
The further you go back in time, the bigger the change will be to the present day you are from. For instance, merely going back and having a long conversation with Hitler's father should be enough to make sure Hitler isn't ever born (assuming we aren't going off of Theory #3 and that always happened).
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:52 pm to OMLandshark
But if you went back in time to alter you not being born. How could you have been alive to go back in time and alter you not being born?
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:56 pm to kingbob
quote:
In my opinion, just by traveling back to the past has already altered it significantly enough to create a new timeline.
For the purpose of this thread(movies), Doc Brown (BTF) went back in time a number times without changing the timeline.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:57 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
But if you went back in time to alter you not being born. How could you have been alive to go back in time and alter you not being born?
I'm a prescriber to theory #3, so how should I know?
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:58 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
But if you went back in time to alter you not being born. How could you have been alive to go back in time and alter you not being born?
In that timeline you wouldn't exist, but in another, you would.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 10:00 pm to Tiger1242
You guys should read Rant: An Oral Biography of Buster Casey by Chuck Palahniuk. He goes pretty in-depth on this sort of loop time travel, and killing your past self stuff.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 10:14 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Holy frick, makes me think of that Family Guy episode
I always wondered if there was a limit to that process. Could it have ended with the entire Earth covered with Brians and Stewies? Now give them space-faring capability. Could the whole universe end up filled with Brian and Stewie spaceships?
Posted on 11/27/12 at 10:16 pm to Spock's Eyebrow
quote:
I always wondered if there was a limit to that process. Could it have ended with the entire Earth covered with Brians and Stewies? Now give them space-faring capability. Could the whole universe end up filled with Brian and Stewie spaceships?
I guess so
Posted on 11/27/12 at 10:23 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
quote:
I always wondered if there was a limit to that process. Could it have ended with the entire Earth covered with Brians and Stewies? Now give them space-faring capability. Could the whole universe end up filled with Brian and Stewie spaceships?
I guess so
This is assuming that time travel is a straight line, with the time travelers jumping back in forth along the line.
This post was edited on 11/27/12 at 10:24 pm
Posted on 11/27/12 at 10:38 pm to Camnola
I like the different approach bit listed here as told by Stephen King in 11/22/63
SPOILERS FOR THE NOVEL 11/22/63****
LINK
Great book.
SPOILERS FOR THE NOVEL 11/22/63****
quote:
If you’re going to travel back in time, author Stephen King says, preparation is everything. The further back you go, the more you have to think about. And if you’re going to try and undo a watershed event in history—the assassination of JFK, say—you had better be determined. Because the past will do its best to remain unchanged. That’s the premise of King’s latest novel, 11/22/63, which follows Jake Epping as he slips back through time to stop Lee Harvey Oswald from pulling the trigger. To get the details right, King talked to experts about the events leading up to Kennedy’s death, and he consulted with heavyweight historians like Doris Kearns Goodwin on what might have happened had JFK lived. Wired spoke with King about the mechanics of time travel, the grandfather paradox, and the scariest thing about trying to change history.
quote:
Wired: Your main character is trying to alter the past, but everything gets in his way. He gets sick, his car won’t start, he gets beaten up.
Stephen King: There’s a kind of a rule that you’d express as a ratio: The more potential a given event has to change the future, the more difficult that event would be to change. If you wanted to go back and speak to somebody on a street corner so that they were five minutes late to an appointment—that might not be too hard. But if you wanted to stop the assassination of a president, that would be really difficult. The past would try to protect itself. My hero, Jake Epping, is befriended by a short-order cook who has a kind of a time bubble in the back of his diner. When you go through it, you always come out at the same time: two minutes before noon, on a day in September 1958. Originally the cook uses it to buy meat at ’50s prices for his restaurant and bring it back through. He always has to buy the same meat because he goes into the store at the same time, every time.
Wired: Sounds simple.
King: Well, it’s a little bit more complex than these people realize. When Al the cook tells Jake about how you can go back to 1958 and walk around and do whatever you want, Jake asks, “What if you went back and killed your own grandfather?”
Wired: The grandfather paradox.
King: Right. And Al looks at him with wide eyes and says, “Why the frick would you want to do that?” So, in a way, we bypassed that whole idea completely. But by the end of the book, they find out that what they think is basically harmless is very harmful.
Wired: Sort of a butterfly effect thing?
King: The butterfly effect has a part in it, but my thought was that every time you go back and change something, you create an alternate timeline. There are these guardians who stand watch over all the time portals, because they understand that whenever you go back, you damage the time-space continuum. At the end Jake meets one of them, who tells him, “Every time you did this, you made the situation worse. And if you continue to do it, everything collapses.” To me that’s pretty horrible.
Wired: But every time Jake goes through the portal, everything is supposedly reset to how it was before.
King: The idea of the reset was one of the more interesting things about the book to me. You can get the idea from computers, where you can delete all this material and start over again and it never even leaves a mark. You just highlight everything, bop Delete, and it’s gone.
Wired: Well, on a computer you think it’s gone, but it’s actually not.
King: It’s like in the story. They think it’s a complete reset, but the guardian tells Jake that it really isn’t. It looked that way to you, but that stuff was still there.
LINK
Great book.
This post was edited on 11/27/12 at 10:57 pm
Posted on 11/27/12 at 10:46 pm to musick
Wow that's a really interesting concept
The guardians standing guard of the space time continuum is a little strange. Also if it all resets can you die in the past and just wake up in the future alive?
The guardians standing guard of the space time continuum is a little strange. Also if it all resets can you die in the past and just wake up in the future alive?
This post was edited on 11/27/12 at 10:49 pm
Posted on 11/27/12 at 10:54 pm to Tiger1242
No, the thought is when you die, you die. The reset only happens when you go back to the future, then BACK again to the past. and remember it isn't really a reset it just appears that way on the surface. It's more of a fictional approach I know, but I enjoyed it. If there was time travel there stands to reason to be something protecting it, King personified that as "guardians" but It really could be anything.
I just posted it here because its a new approach that I like.
I personally subscribe to the alternate timeline/universes being created when you alter something (Kings book does delve into this as well) coinciding with each other. String theory. Also seen on fringe. The more that you travel, the more the universes or strings are created, and eventually they will all start to bleed into each other causing anomalies.
I just posted it here because its a new approach that I like.
I personally subscribe to the alternate timeline/universes being created when you alter something (Kings book does delve into this as well) coinciding with each other. String theory. Also seen on fringe. The more that you travel, the more the universes or strings are created, and eventually they will all start to bleed into each other causing anomalies.
This post was edited on 11/27/12 at 11:05 pm
Posted on 11/27/12 at 11:19 pm to Tiger1242
When in doubt, you no matter what go with the flawed Back to the Future reasoning. Go back in time, look and see if the picture is changing.
Whatever you do, DO NOT COME IN CONTACT WITH YOUR PAST SELF.
Plus, you mainly go back for future family issues. Honestly, if your son is going to end up being falsely accused of a crime that screws the whole family over, fix it.
If you go back and are killed, then your future self is killed. It doesn't effect your past family life, but does so to your current time family. You are assumed dead so the life you came from will now be different from then on. Unless your son or something comes back to you and distracts you from being hit by a car for some reason. In that case, everybody wins.
Whatever you do, DO NOT COME IN CONTACT WITH YOUR PAST SELF.
Plus, you mainly go back for future family issues. Honestly, if your son is going to end up being falsely accused of a crime that screws the whole family over, fix it.
If you go back and are killed, then your future self is killed. It doesn't effect your past family life, but does so to your current time family. You are assumed dead so the life you came from will now be different from then on. Unless your son or something comes back to you and distracts you from being hit by a car for some reason. In that case, everybody wins.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:05 am to Tiger1242
quote:
guys goes back in time
he succeeds and splits off to another timeline
but when he gets back, he notices something drastic has changed because he wasn't around
so he goes back in time to kill himself, before he can kill himself
The way I see it is that time does what it can to repair itself, creating a new timeline is only for worst-case scenarios.
Example: I go back in time and kill my grandmother. I die the moment she does because I created an event where in my direct timeline I never existed, then this new time continues on in its place.
I go back in time and kill myself, same thing.
But what happens if I'm the one that discovered time travel and I simply lobotomize my past self so that I could never create time travel?
This is going to get a little strange, so let me know if it's as clear as mud and I'll try a more clear explanation.
If time is a stream of water, then my trip through time creates a small tributary off that stream that circles back around to it at some point farther upstream. My actions at that upstream point though end up changing the course of the stream so completely that it follows a completely new path from that point forward.
Future-me is still in this timeline but is afflicted with the lobotomization because that was the last effect to come down through time to me before the stream shifted course. Past and future me are parts of this new stream now, so we both continue on this new path together with future-me being the only remnant (complete with as many memories as the lobotomization allows) of the old timestream.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:33 am to Bard
I don't think we can use our own knowledge to say that creating an alternate universe is a big deal. One problem with the human brain is it only wants to comprehend things that it has seen or understands.
First of all, I'm on the fence with it being possible or not. I'm asbsolutely fascinated by time and it's relation to light. When you look at the stars, you're looking at stars millions of years ago. You could be looking at things that haven't even existed for 10 million years. Essentially we're always looking into the past, even when we look at our computer screens, albeit, the time it takes the light from the screen to get to our eyes is so minute that it's immeasurable, but is in the past regardless.
If I were to join a camp, it would be the alternate timeline gets created as soon as we go to time.
But another theory I've toyed with is that there is one timeline and each moment is defined and while you can go back and change things it doesn't change the future because the future has already happened...somewhere. So your grandmother may have been killed before you were born by a time traveler, but you still exist, because you exist. It's hard to explain, but essentially when you time travel it's like you just travel back in time to watch something and the changes you make are only to what you're watching. So the benefit of time travel with this theory would just be to observe and gather information. If you killed someone they're dead. Think of it as one of those cop training video screens, where there are live actors that get shot if you shoot them and they die, but you can always reset and they'll be alive again.
First of all, I'm on the fence with it being possible or not. I'm asbsolutely fascinated by time and it's relation to light. When you look at the stars, you're looking at stars millions of years ago. You could be looking at things that haven't even existed for 10 million years. Essentially we're always looking into the past, even when we look at our computer screens, albeit, the time it takes the light from the screen to get to our eyes is so minute that it's immeasurable, but is in the past regardless.
If I were to join a camp, it would be the alternate timeline gets created as soon as we go to time.
But another theory I've toyed with is that there is one timeline and each moment is defined and while you can go back and change things it doesn't change the future because the future has already happened...somewhere. So your grandmother may have been killed before you were born by a time traveler, but you still exist, because you exist. It's hard to explain, but essentially when you time travel it's like you just travel back in time to watch something and the changes you make are only to what you're watching. So the benefit of time travel with this theory would just be to observe and gather information. If you killed someone they're dead. Think of it as one of those cop training video screens, where there are live actors that get shot if you shoot them and they die, but you can always reset and they'll be alive again.
This post was edited on 11/28/12 at 11:59 am
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:39 am to Tiger1242
You wouldn't be able to because then you wouldn't have been alive long enough to go bak in time and kill yourself. I only read the title but I'm assuming the OP has the word "paradox" somewhere in it.
Posted on 11/28/12 at 11:47 am to Notro
quote:This is why time travel can never happen and will never happen. Because if it could, someone would have already done it.
The Novikov self-consistency principle and Kip S. Thorne expresses one view on how backwards time travel could be possible without a danger of paradoxes. According to this hypothesis, the only possible time lines are those entirely self-consistent—so anything a time traveler does in the past must have been part of history all along, and the time traveler can never do anything to prevent the trip back in time from happening, since this would represent an inconsistency.
Even to assume time travel is possible, you have to assume that everything that will happen has already happened. Which is why 12 Monkeys is a bad time travel movie.
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