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If you go back in time and kill yourself, what happens? A movie board discussion
Posted on 11/27/12 at 8:32 pm
Posted on 11/27/12 at 8:32 pm
I posted this here on purpose bc the OT is a horrible place to discuss something and people here usually post with some thought. Also I figure there's a movie somewhere that this happens. I haven't seen Looper yet so if Bruce Willis kills JGL what happened?
Been having this discussion/argument with my friends for the better part of a decade now. Here are the schools of thought:
#1- past self dies, doesn't affect present self. This is the least likely IMO, I mean how would you dying before today not affect anything? You'd be dead right? The thought is since you can still go back to your future it'd be fine; most movies though show changing shite in the past greatly changes the future.
#2- your life ends, present self never existed. Makes sense, I mean you die in the past you have no future. One big issue with this and it brings us to...
#3- And it's the one I believe. You can't kill your past self, your present self is unable to kill your past self bc if you died in the past, you wouldn't be alive to come back in time and kill yourself. Therefore try as you might you're unable to kill your past self, you keep disappearing or something but you can't do it.
#4- causes some universe disturbance and fricks up the whole universe, destroying possibly everything.
What do you agree with? Any other possibilities? Any movies where someone went back into time and killed their past self?
Been having this discussion/argument with my friends for the better part of a decade now. Here are the schools of thought:
#1- past self dies, doesn't affect present self. This is the least likely IMO, I mean how would you dying before today not affect anything? You'd be dead right? The thought is since you can still go back to your future it'd be fine; most movies though show changing shite in the past greatly changes the future.
#2- your life ends, present self never existed. Makes sense, I mean you die in the past you have no future. One big issue with this and it brings us to...
#3- And it's the one I believe. You can't kill your past self, your present self is unable to kill your past self bc if you died in the past, you wouldn't be alive to come back in time and kill yourself. Therefore try as you might you're unable to kill your past self, you keep disappearing or something but you can't do it.
#4- causes some universe disturbance and fricks up the whole universe, destroying possibly everything.
What do you agree with? Any other possibilities? Any movies where someone went back into time and killed their past self?
10
Posted on 11/27/12 at 8:39 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
The Novikov self-consistency principle and Kip S. Thorne expresses one view on how backwards time travel could be possible without a danger of paradoxes. According to this hypothesis, the only possible time lines are those entirely self-consistent—so anything a time traveler does in the past must have been part of history all along, and the time traveler can never do anything to prevent the trip back in time from happening, since this would represent an inconsistency.
This post was edited on 11/27/12 at 8:40 pm
Posted on 11/27/12 at 8:39 pm to Tiger1242
Easy one...
Past self dies, Present self splits off in a alternative (parallel) universe.
Past self dies, Present self splits off in a alternative (parallel) universe.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 8:41 pm to Tiger1242
It depends on what rules of time travel you choose to follow. #1 would work if each time travel journey started a new time line. #2 is more of the Back to the Future time travel. This one makes the most sense to me. #3 deals with too many paradoxes and can become muddled and confusing. #4...well that's just silly. I like #2.
ETA: This is for movie purposes. For actual time travel belief:
Stephen Hawking says backwards time travel isn't possible because it creates too many paradoxes. I believe him because he's pretty much the smartest dude to ever live.
ETA: This is for movie purposes. For actual time travel belief:
Stephen Hawking says backwards time travel isn't possible because it creates too many paradoxes. I believe him because he's pretty much the smartest dude to ever live.
This post was edited on 11/27/12 at 8:44 pm
Posted on 11/27/12 at 8:48 pm to uglycasanova7
Pretty neat thoughts...
The commonest objections to time travel are the so-called paradoxes. For example, if we could travel through time, imagine what would happen to a time traveller if he (or she) travelled back in time and killed their own grandmother at birth. In theory the time traveller will therefore never be born, so the journey could never have been made in the first place; but if the journey never occurred then the grandmother would be born which means the time traveller would have been born and could make the journey ... and so on and so on. This is a paradox.
There are two possibilities to resolve this paradox. The first is that the past is totally defined, i.e. everything that has happened or must happen, including the time traveller’s attempt to kill his grandmother, cannot be altered and so nothing will change the course of history. In other words, the time traveller will experience endless "mishaps" in trying to kill their grandmother and will never achieve the murder, thus keeping time (or at least events) intact.
The second possibility is more complex and involves the quantum rules which govern the subatomic level of the universe. Put simply, when the time traveller kills their grandmother they immediately create a new quantum universe, in essence a parallel universe where the young grandmother never existed and where the time traveller is never born. The original universe still remains. Stephen Hawking believes he can explain the origin of our universe as a variation of this parallel worlds theme.
The commonest objections to time travel are the so-called paradoxes. For example, if we could travel through time, imagine what would happen to a time traveller if he (or she) travelled back in time and killed their own grandmother at birth. In theory the time traveller will therefore never be born, so the journey could never have been made in the first place; but if the journey never occurred then the grandmother would be born which means the time traveller would have been born and could make the journey ... and so on and so on. This is a paradox.
There are two possibilities to resolve this paradox. The first is that the past is totally defined, i.e. everything that has happened or must happen, including the time traveller’s attempt to kill his grandmother, cannot be altered and so nothing will change the course of history. In other words, the time traveller will experience endless "mishaps" in trying to kill their grandmother and will never achieve the murder, thus keeping time (or at least events) intact.
The second possibility is more complex and involves the quantum rules which govern the subatomic level of the universe. Put simply, when the time traveller kills their grandmother they immediately create a new quantum universe, in essence a parallel universe where the young grandmother never existed and where the time traveller is never born. The original universe still remains. Stephen Hawking believes he can explain the origin of our universe as a variation of this parallel worlds theme.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 8:57 pm to Camnola
quote:
The second possibility is more complex and involves the quantum rules which govern the subatomic level of the universe. Put simply, when the time traveller kills their grandmother they immediately create a new quantum universe, in essence a parallel universe where the young grandmother never existed and where the time traveller is never born. The original universe still remains. Stephen Hawking believes he can explain the origin of our universe as a variation of this parallel worlds theme.
The issue I have with this, is that it seems pretty egocentric to think that ONE person can have that much effect on an entire universe, to the point where one action would start a whole new parallel universe.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 8:58 pm to Camnola
This is the kind of stuff I was looking for when I posted this here 
Some very interesting ideas here. And I agree that past time travel is probably impossible, but for the purpose of this discussion lets say it is
Some very interesting ideas here. And I agree that past time travel is probably impossible, but for the purpose of this discussion lets say it is
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:13 pm to Camnola
quote:
Easy one...
Past self dies, Present self splits off in a alternative (parallel) universe.
This, that's just the point where the two universes diverge.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:19 pm to uglycasanova7
quote:
The issue I have with this, is that it seems pretty egocentric to think that ONE person can have that much effect on an entire universe, to the point where one action would start a whole new parallel universe.
Think of the lives or events effected by that one person, paths altered by that persons being in that exact place in time were their path crossed yours. Second earlier or later could make all the difference.
If that person ceases to exist, countless lives would be effected. Think of the domino effect.
This post was edited on 11/27/12 at 9:22 pm
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:21 pm to uglycasanova7
quote:
The issue I have with this, is that it seems pretty egocentric to think that ONE person can have that much effect on an entire universe, to the point where one action would start a whole new parallel universe.
Exactly. If this was the case and time travel existed there would be SO many parallel universes
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:24 pm to Tiger1242
I'm drinking. No chance I can give a meaningful response. All respect, though.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:24 pm to Tiger1242
In my case, JP Morgan and Citibank are each short thousands of dollars. Apply Butterfly Effect and America is renamed Fifth Third Bank.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:25 pm to Tiger1242
You become immortal
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:26 pm to Jumbeauxlaya
quote:
quote:
Easy one...
Past self dies, Present self splits off in a alternative (parallel) universe.
This, that's just the point where the two universes diverge.
Right,so if this were true one COULD travel back in time to kill themselves. Present self would continue in universes TWO while past self history would stop in universe ONE.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:32 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
Exactly. If this was the case and time travel existed there would be SO many parallel universes
There are, have you not seen futurama?
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:40 pm to Tiger1242
every trip back in time creates an alternate universe. Killing yourself in the past only affects the alternate universe, not the one you came from.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:41 pm to uglycasanova7
quote:
It depends on what rules of time travel you choose to follow.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:42 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
#3- And it's the one I believe. You can't kill your past self, your present self is unable to kill your past self bc if you died in the past, you wouldn't be alive to come back in time and kill yourself. Therefore try as you might you're unable to kill your past self, you keep disappearing or something but you can't do it.
I'm of this line of thought, more on the lines of LOST time travel rules. Whatever Happened, Happened, and you can't go back and change time. You can merely fulfill the past.
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:43 pm to Camnola
quote:
Easy one...
Past self dies, Present self splits off in a alternative (parallel) universe.
okay, then what about this
guy goes back to kill himself
he succeeds and splits off to another timeline
but when he gets back, he notices something drastic has changed because he wasn't around
so he goes back in time to kill himself, before he can kill himself
how many times can he keep doing this?
Posted on 11/27/12 at 9:47 pm to kingbob
quote:
every trip back in time creates an alternate universe. Killing yourself in the past only affects the alternate universe, not the one you came from.
Not so, only if you alter time every trip back.
Killing yourself would alter the universe you came from but everything forward would be new (new universe) , having not been written by your past, lived for the first time.
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