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benhamin5555 
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
1599 posts
| Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:11 pm)
Wikipedia on "economic liberalism": LINK
quote:
Economic liberalism is the ideological belief in organizing the economy on individualist lines, such that the greatest possible number of economic decisions are made by private individuals and not by collective institutions.
quote:
it tends to oppose government intervention in the free market when it inhibits free trade and open competition.
Wikipedia's definition of "conservativism": "Conservatism (Latin: conservare, "to retain") is a political and social philosophy that promotes retaining traditional social institutions"
So as somebody who favors a strong free market, private business and less economic government intervention, I have a much easier time calling myself "liberal" than "conservative". I think the words get mixed up a lot and everybody seems to have their own definition. Liberalism to me is the emphasis on both personal economic freedom. The original definition of "liberalism" is what most people call "libertarianism" today. Conservativism originally was the emphasis on "traditional" social structures: what most call "social conservativism" today.
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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
44010 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:12 pm to benhamin5555)
because US socialists prefer to be known as liberals and have worked hard to confuse the masses
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jeff5891 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Aug 2011
1563 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:15 pm to CarrolltonTiger)
if you think either one is socialist then you have no clue as to what you are talking about
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tdt
Member since Nov 2012
477 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:15 pm to CarrolltonTiger)
neither of those posts make any sense fwiw
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CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
44010 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:18 pm to jeff5891)
quote:
if you think either one is socialist
either of what groups? what are you writing about?
Socialists are socialists. what are you writing about?
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CITWTT
LSU Fan
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
25078 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:19 pm to benhamin5555)
Wikipedias definition for anything is BS. You most probably are one of the people that get thier news from John Stewart and Colbert(yes they do exist).
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benhamin5555
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
1599 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:20 pm to CITWTT)
Contrary to popular belief Wikipedia tends to be quite accurate on almost anything.
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Y.A. Tittle
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
44025 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:21 pm to benhamin5555)
quote:
quote:
Economic liberalism is the ideological belief in organizing the economy on individualist lines, such that the greatest possible number of economic decisions are made by private individuals and not by collective institutions.
quote:
it tends to oppose government intervention in the free market when it inhibits free trade and open competition.
Are you contending that these are central tenants of American "liberalism"?
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tdt
Member since Nov 2012
477 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:22 pm to benhamin5555)
the problem is that if you go into political and economic theory these words dont mean the same things they do in modern american politics
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40056 posts
 Online
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:23 pm to benhamin5555)
quote:
Contrary to popular belief Wikipedia tends to be quite accurate on almost anything.
But in your case you're mixing metaphors.
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joshnorris14 
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19489 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:25 pm to benhamin5555)
Wikipedia's definition for economic Liberalism doesn't match up with how the term is used in America. American Liberalism is largely tied to Egalitarianism as opposed to Individualism.
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Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
55315 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:26 pm to benhamin5555)
Liberals are communists. Socialism just sounds nicer.
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tdt
Member since Nov 2012
477 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:28 pm to Zach)
neoliberalism is basically conservatism
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BayouBandit24
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Aug 2010
7582 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:29 pm to tdt)
quote:
the problem is that if you go into political and economic theory these words dont mean the same things they do in modern american politics
Exactly.
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Draconian Sanctions
LSU Fan
San Francisco 49ers Fan
Member since Oct 2008
28151 posts
Online
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:32 pm to benhamin5555)
I'm liberal and it's absurd that the right wants to label increasing the top tax rate a few percentage points (still well behind what it was for most of the 20th century) as communism or socialism. It's just flat out false.
Now I do support true socialized health care. But that's it really. I would give up a lot of welfare and unemployment benefits to get it.
This post was edited on 11/13 at 4:40 pm
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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
71695 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:35 pm to benhamin5555)
I haven't met a liberal yet who didn't at least like the idea of socialism in some form.
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MFn GIMP
LSU Fan
Somerset, Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
6942 posts
Online
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 4:39 pm to benhamin5555)
Wait liberals and Democrats today are "classical liberals?" What the heck are you smoking?
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RuLSU 
Rutgers Fan
New Jersey
Member since Nov 2007
859 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 5:44 pm to RogerTheShrubber)
quote:
I haven't met a liberal yet who didn't at least like the idea of socialism in some form.
I've never met a single human being who actively believed in 'socialism.' Never, not once.
Furthermore, I'm far more likely to vote democrat then republican and I don't want socialism.
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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
71695 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 5:46 pm to RuLSU)
quote:
I've never met a single human being who actively believed in 'socialism.' Never, not once.
You must be very young, and very isolated
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RuLSU
Rutgers Fan
New Jersey
Member since Nov 2007
859 posts
| re: Why do so many people think "liberal" means socialist? (Posted on 11/13/12 at 6:21 pm to RogerTheShrubber)
quote:
You must be very young, and very isolated
Neither.
Socialism doesn't work. It is contrary to human nature, and I've literally never met someone who felt otherwise.
More laws? Sure. More taxes for the rich? Sure. Universal health-care? Sure. We could debate the merits of these concepts all day, but none of them are directly related to socialism.
Government controlling the means of production, or a simplified "centrally planned economy" ? Nope, I've never heard that.
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