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Message

My TDKR Review (Spoilers)
Posted on 7/29/12 at 7:11 am
Posted on 7/29/12 at 7:11 am
Yeah, I know that many of you will say post this in the 500 page long thread, but I don't really give a shite since it looks like that thread's finally dying down. I'll try to make this more of an analysis and try to put in some of my initial feelings on it. I won't be able to do a second screening for a good month or so, unless I do some rip off Russian video cam, but then Bane would be pretty much impossible to understand. So here's my initial analysis, by first analyzing the characters and their decisions:
1) Batman/Bruce Wayne: I'm not sure how I feel at this point about Batman's survival. Thought he was dead for sure with the bomb blast. My gut tells me his survival is a cop-out, but my heart tells me that he deserved happiness in the end and live to see his vision of his symbol living on fulfilled. Really conflicted about that, and I think a second viewing would do wonders with that. Either way, Batman's redemption was well handled in my mind regardless of what I settle on. Also really liked the fate of Wayne Manor at the end.
2) Selina Kyle/Catwoman: Absolute slam dunk here. Everything was done pretty perfectly with her character and they truly understood her. Hathaway's performance was really great and maybe hopefully have some sort of nomination (although I doubt she'll deserve the win). My major problem going into it with Catwoman was how the hell do you get a cat burgler involved with the Batman and Universe Nolan has created (not to mention a war movie). It seemed to me that he probably wouldn't give two shits about her, but the fingerprint theft was a clever way to get Batman interested in her. I'm still not completely sure why Catwoman had any actual face-to-face contact with Bane in the first place, but I may have just missed it in the first viewing. Nolan proved me wrong majorly in this regard.
3) Bane: While I've been bitching about Catwoman for months, I've always been adamant in saying that Bane was a great choice of primary antagonist to replace the Joker. Bane was definitely a huge beast of a soldier and very uneasy. Hardy's perfomance is great and he's definitely able to show tons of emotion with merely his glaze (not award nominee worthy though). He definitely reminded me of a more ripped a brutal version of Darth Vader. He was hard for mne to understand though, although I'm sure I'll understand him more after a second viewing. His fights with Batman were great and I liked what they did with his origin. He went basically how I expected and wanted him to go, with no real surprises really. This isn't a complaint, he just didn't blow me away in the same way Ledger's Joker did, but being pleasantly surprised in Hathaway made up for it. He met expectations and that's about it.
4) Alfred- I think Alfred may have been one of my favorite parts of the film. My most major complaint with "Batman Begins" deals with how Alfred was handled and how he pretty much just goes with it. Not this time though. He acts like the true father to Bruce Wayne would act. Everything about their relationship is done just perfectly in this film and makes up for all my problems with "Batman Begins". Caine actually does deserve the nominee for best supporting actor and puts across an incredible performance. Wish they could have somehow incorporated him into the middle of the film though.
5) John Blake: This character was an absolute welcome to this film. Finally Robin (or Nightwing) done right and non-corny. I definitely found myself rooting for him as much as any of the other older characters. Sure his end was predictable, but it wasn't bad and was certainly very well done. No complaints or nitpicks here.
6) Commissioner Gordon: Doing what Gordon does really. Liked his confliction over the Dent mess and the lies he told and definitely back to his badass ways stopping the bomb. Par for the course for Oldman with BB and TDK.
7) Talia al Ghul- From the moment Marion Cotillard was cast, it was pretty obvious she was to be Talia (probably be my second choice behind Eva Greene). Liked the twist at the end how she instead was the child who was raised in the prison and escaped on her own (didn't see that coming, although I certainly saw her betrayal coming). Kinda wish they could have done more with her in the first half of the film and make her and Bruce closer than they were. She was well cast and well done, but nothing particularly amazing like Hathaway or Caine.
8) Lucius Fox: Kinda like Oldman, more par for the course for Freeman and his character. Not much to say, slthough I was pretty confident he was going to die and think he probably should have died. That might be a major qualm with this film I had since no major good guy is killed. Freeman's character could have easily served this purpose.
Plot: While the beginning was a little long to go through, it was still entirely entertaining. Think they could have used Talia more in the first half. The war was well done, with Gotham descending into absolute chaos. Definitely feels like a much larger and grander film than its predecessors. I liked the themes of economic warfare between the classes, although I would have appreciated them showing the impoverished near the beginning of the film like in say "Batman Begins". This I think will be a definitive film when historians go back and look at the mindset of the population during Obama's administration, and it definitely shows and is morally ambiguous (aside from the bomb and Bane needing to be stopped).
Summary: In closing aside from some nitpicks (at least at first glance), I think this film was excellently done. Sure the villains didn't blow my socks of like Ledger's Joker did, but the film managed to in many other ways, particularly in the final 30 minutes of the film. TDK was all about the villain and his methods really. This was a more personal story and it completely succeeds as such. We will always wonder if what this film could have been if Ledger had survived, but I don't think they could have done it much better without his pressence. Big props to Nolan and all those involved. Nolan has succeeded in making the third perfect trilogy
4 Stars out of 4
As for my rankings of all the Batman films, I'm not sure yet if I like this more than TDK or not, but I'm sure I like it more than Begins, so for now it will be in second place, with a possibilty of it going to first once it settles.
1) The Dark Knight
2) The Dark Knight Rises
3) Batman Begins
4) Mask of the Phantasm
5) Year One
6) Under the Red Hood
7) Return of the Joker
8) Batman
9) Batman Returns
10) Batman (1966)
11) Batman Forever
12) Batman and Robin
Also in before TL;DR.
1) Batman/Bruce Wayne: I'm not sure how I feel at this point about Batman's survival. Thought he was dead for sure with the bomb blast. My gut tells me his survival is a cop-out, but my heart tells me that he deserved happiness in the end and live to see his vision of his symbol living on fulfilled. Really conflicted about that, and I think a second viewing would do wonders with that. Either way, Batman's redemption was well handled in my mind regardless of what I settle on. Also really liked the fate of Wayne Manor at the end.
2) Selina Kyle/Catwoman: Absolute slam dunk here. Everything was done pretty perfectly with her character and they truly understood her. Hathaway's performance was really great and maybe hopefully have some sort of nomination (although I doubt she'll deserve the win). My major problem going into it with Catwoman was how the hell do you get a cat burgler involved with the Batman and Universe Nolan has created (not to mention a war movie). It seemed to me that he probably wouldn't give two shits about her, but the fingerprint theft was a clever way to get Batman interested in her. I'm still not completely sure why Catwoman had any actual face-to-face contact with Bane in the first place, but I may have just missed it in the first viewing. Nolan proved me wrong majorly in this regard.
3) Bane: While I've been bitching about Catwoman for months, I've always been adamant in saying that Bane was a great choice of primary antagonist to replace the Joker. Bane was definitely a huge beast of a soldier and very uneasy. Hardy's perfomance is great and he's definitely able to show tons of emotion with merely his glaze (not award nominee worthy though). He definitely reminded me of a more ripped a brutal version of Darth Vader. He was hard for mne to understand though, although I'm sure I'll understand him more after a second viewing. His fights with Batman were great and I liked what they did with his origin. He went basically how I expected and wanted him to go, with no real surprises really. This isn't a complaint, he just didn't blow me away in the same way Ledger's Joker did, but being pleasantly surprised in Hathaway made up for it. He met expectations and that's about it.
4) Alfred- I think Alfred may have been one of my favorite parts of the film. My most major complaint with "Batman Begins" deals with how Alfred was handled and how he pretty much just goes with it. Not this time though. He acts like the true father to Bruce Wayne would act. Everything about their relationship is done just perfectly in this film and makes up for all my problems with "Batman Begins". Caine actually does deserve the nominee for best supporting actor and puts across an incredible performance. Wish they could have somehow incorporated him into the middle of the film though.
5) John Blake: This character was an absolute welcome to this film. Finally Robin (or Nightwing) done right and non-corny. I definitely found myself rooting for him as much as any of the other older characters. Sure his end was predictable, but it wasn't bad and was certainly very well done. No complaints or nitpicks here.
6) Commissioner Gordon: Doing what Gordon does really. Liked his confliction over the Dent mess and the lies he told and definitely back to his badass ways stopping the bomb. Par for the course for Oldman with BB and TDK.
7) Talia al Ghul- From the moment Marion Cotillard was cast, it was pretty obvious she was to be Talia (probably be my second choice behind Eva Greene). Liked the twist at the end how she instead was the child who was raised in the prison and escaped on her own (didn't see that coming, although I certainly saw her betrayal coming). Kinda wish they could have done more with her in the first half of the film and make her and Bruce closer than they were. She was well cast and well done, but nothing particularly amazing like Hathaway or Caine.
8) Lucius Fox: Kinda like Oldman, more par for the course for Freeman and his character. Not much to say, slthough I was pretty confident he was going to die and think he probably should have died. That might be a major qualm with this film I had since no major good guy is killed. Freeman's character could have easily served this purpose.
Plot: While the beginning was a little long to go through, it was still entirely entertaining. Think they could have used Talia more in the first half. The war was well done, with Gotham descending into absolute chaos. Definitely feels like a much larger and grander film than its predecessors. I liked the themes of economic warfare between the classes, although I would have appreciated them showing the impoverished near the beginning of the film like in say "Batman Begins". This I think will be a definitive film when historians go back and look at the mindset of the population during Obama's administration, and it definitely shows and is morally ambiguous (aside from the bomb and Bane needing to be stopped).
Summary: In closing aside from some nitpicks (at least at first glance), I think this film was excellently done. Sure the villains didn't blow my socks of like Ledger's Joker did, but the film managed to in many other ways, particularly in the final 30 minutes of the film. TDK was all about the villain and his methods really. This was a more personal story and it completely succeeds as such. We will always wonder if what this film could have been if Ledger had survived, but I don't think they could have done it much better without his pressence. Big props to Nolan and all those involved. Nolan has succeeded in making the third perfect trilogy
4 Stars out of 4
As for my rankings of all the Batman films, I'm not sure yet if I like this more than TDK or not, but I'm sure I like it more than Begins, so for now it will be in second place, with a possibilty of it going to first once it settles.
1) The Dark Knight
2) The Dark Knight Rises
3) Batman Begins
4) Mask of the Phantasm
5) Year One
6) Under the Red Hood
7) Return of the Joker
8) Batman
9) Batman Returns
10) Batman (1966)
11) Batman Forever
12) Batman and Robin
Also in before TL;DR.
This post was edited on 7/29/12 at 7:34 am
Posted on 7/29/12 at 7:27 am to OMLandshark
The plot left me a little confused, particularly Bruce's time in the prison. Just didn't work for me. Definitely agree that Talia was underutilized and I wish Blake had started dressing up as Batman- instead of the chalk- during the occupation. But those are nitpicks
On the whole, I agree. A great movie. Will have to see it again because there was too much going on to absorb it all.
On the whole, I agree. A great movie. Will have to see it again because there was too much going on to absorb it all.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 8:08 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Yeah, I know that many of you will say post this in the 500 page long thread, but I don't really give a shite
Of course you don't. That's the typical behavior of one, such as yourself, that thinks you're way too popular to not have your very own review thread.
You're wrong btw.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 8:11 am to Murray
TDKR board, brah.
One day this forum will return to normal.
One day this forum will return to normal.
This post was edited on 7/29/12 at 8:12 am
Posted on 7/29/12 at 8:28 am to Murray
quote:
That's the typical behavior of one, such as yourself, that thinks you're way too popular to not have your very own review thread.
Honestly this is the first time I've ever done this (I have no desire to become a TulaneLSU), aside when there wasn't a thread already or its a film that's long been released. The thread just got way too big to wade through, so I just made my own thread. If the thread had been 7 pages, then sure, but 90 pages is just too much to go through. Tried to make as many interesting observations instead of just the passing comments and bickering that is sure to be in that thread.
quote:
You're wrong btw.
About what?
This post was edited on 7/29/12 at 8:38 am
Posted on 7/29/12 at 9:15 am to OMLandshark
I don't mind someone starting their own thread as long as its well thought out and informative, unlike the other one on the first page.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 9:45 am to OMLandshark
But but but it wasn't realistic
Posted on 7/29/12 at 10:00 am to hiltacular
quote:
But but but it wasn't realistic
Neither was the Dark Knight or Batman Begins. Yeah its more realistic than any other comic book film (aside from maybe Super), but it wasn't supposed to be completely realistic. How could it be? Just supposed to be a thrilling crime/war film.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 10:02 am to OMLandshark
quote:
5) John Blake: This character was an absolute welcome to this film. Finally Robin (or Nightwing) done right and non-corny. I definitely found myself rooting for him as much as any of the other older characters. Sure his end was predictable, but it wasn't bad and was certainly very well done. No complaints or nitpicks here.
Hes not Robin. Hes either Batman or Nightwing
Posted on 7/29/12 at 10:08 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
Hes not Robin. Hes either Batman or Nightwing
His name is Robin though, and serves the basic concept as the successor to Batman. Its just much better done than Robin had ever been done. Batman shouldn't be the type to seek an apprentice, but successor yes. Robin is something that doesn't make as much sense given Batman's current character. John Blake does however. He's the new Dark Knight Rising,
Posted on 7/29/12 at 10:17 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Neither was the Dark Knight or Batman Begins. Yeah its more realistic than any other comic book film (aside from maybe Super), but it wasn't supposed to be completely realistic. How could it be? Just supposed to be a thrilling crime/war film.
Oh I agree, it just seems like for whatever reason, this movie has been getting a lot of hate for being unrealistic.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 10:43 am to OMLandshark
I don't like people thinking they are too special for the Season thread or existing thread either. I have my own Tulane-esque thread going and just decided to put my review in the big thread. But since yours is a more long and thought out review and not just some new thought that popped in your head, I'm okay with it.
I like your review. I disagree with everyone who is hating on Hathaway. I do not think TDK was better though. Aside from Ledger, that was a very flawed film.
I do see a Cracked article in the future about Wayne going broke overnight right after the stock market is raided and it wouldn't be too hard to figure this stuff out. And within days his power is turned off and his car is repo'd. Ok.
I like your review. I disagree with everyone who is hating on Hathaway. I do not think TDK was better though. Aside from Ledger, that was a very flawed film.
I do see a Cracked article in the future about Wayne going broke overnight right after the stock market is raided and it wouldn't be too hard to figure this stuff out. And within days his power is turned off and his car is repo'd. Ok.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 11:05 am to alajones
quote:
I don't like people thinking they are too special for the Season thread or existing thread either. I have my own Tulane-esque thread going and just decided to put my review in the big thread. But since yours is a more long and thought out review and not just some new thought that popped in your head, I'm okay with it.
Yeah, I wouldn't have done it if it were 3 or 4 paragraphs, but I just wanted to do a full analysis of the film and thought this could be an appropriate.
quote:
I like your review. I disagree with everyone who is hating on Hathaway. I do not think TDK was better though. Aside from Ledger, that was a very flawed film.
Well, I mean, TDKR is flawed as well. Its not a perfect film and I've spotted some things, like how the hell did Batman get back in the city, or why they didn't kill off Lucius Fox once they had his fingerprints, or in the very least make sure he's under constant watch by someone who isn't undercover? TDK has flaws, like the Joker is definitely way, way too prepared and well timed to be believable.
But thats not what is important in Christopher Nolan films. Christopher Nolan is a director that is completely focused on the tone of his films, not really the minute and unimportant details like say a film maker like Fincher or Kubrick would be. He's a heavily emotional director and will gladly sacrifice logic in his films in order for a character to have more emotional residence,. It makes plot holes more forgiving.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 11:37 am to OMLandshark
How did Wayne get back to Gotham after getting out of prison? Riddle me this batman...
Posted on 7/29/12 at 11:53 am to OMLandshark
Well, I mean, TDKR is flawed as well. Its not a perfect film and I've spotted some things, like how the hell did Batman get back in the city, or why they didn't kill off Lucius Fox once they had his fingerprints, or in the very least make sure he's under constant watch by someone who isn't undercover?
You don't think Bruce Wayne had reserve offshore accounts to rely on? I don't think they really needed to even explain this.
Fox, Bane letting him live is part of his character. He is extremely arrogant and believes that he and his plans are unbreakable. Plus he stated someone of Fox's stature needed to see the new world.
You don't think Bruce Wayne had reserve offshore accounts to rely on? I don't think they really needed to even explain this.
Fox, Bane letting him live is part of his character. He is extremely arrogant and believes that he and his plans are unbreakable. Plus he stated someone of Fox's stature needed to see the new world.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 11:55 am to schexyoung
quote:
Fox, Bane letting him live is part of his character. He is extremely arrogant and believes that he and his plans are unbreakable
I don't really care that he let Fox live, but I disagree with that characterization of Bane.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 12:08 pm to OMLandshark
While I loved Cotillard in this movie, I agree that Eva Green would have been excellent in the role of Miranda Tate.
Posted on 7/29/12 at 1:12 pm to schexyoung
quote:
Fox, Bane letting him live is part of his character. He is extremely arrogant and believes that he and his plans are unbreakable.
I could kill you... but I'd rather have you at my mercy and not. I could blow up the city immediately, but I'd rather let everyone know I plan on doing it weeks from now
Bahahaha Mr Bond, this is what I looked like under my mask!
Posted on 7/29/12 at 1:41 pm to OMLandshark
Solid review. I was interested to hear your thoughts on it
But
I love under the red hood and year one. I'm meh on phantasm, but I don't think you can compare the animated films to live ones. You can pull off more things in an animated movie that would just be ridiculous in a live film. Burton's batmans really are very good movies. He really does the one thing Nolan couldn't do and that's create a real Gotham. Plus I love the sets, mat paintings and animation used to create this. It's not a classic film but it's made like one. I feel like these movies are overlooked because Nolan's are better (duh) and because the abominations "forever" and "robin" we're sequels to Burton's films, but they are so different stylistically and in quality that I literally feel no connection between them. If michael gough weren't dead and Keaton could still pull off batman, burton could make a third that completely ignored the events in "forever" and "robin"
ETA: the burton films were a huge influence on BTAS (along with the superman cartoons of the 40s)
But
quote:
1) The Dark Knight
2) The Dark Knight Rises
3) Batman Begins
4) Mask of the Phantasm
5) Year One
6) Under the Red Hood
7) Return of the Joker
8) Batman
9) Batman Returns
10) Batman (1966)
11) Batman Forever
12) Batman and Robin
I love under the red hood and year one. I'm meh on phantasm, but I don't think you can compare the animated films to live ones. You can pull off more things in an animated movie that would just be ridiculous in a live film. Burton's batmans really are very good movies. He really does the one thing Nolan couldn't do and that's create a real Gotham. Plus I love the sets, mat paintings and animation used to create this. It's not a classic film but it's made like one. I feel like these movies are overlooked because Nolan's are better (duh) and because the abominations "forever" and "robin" we're sequels to Burton's films, but they are so different stylistically and in quality that I literally feel no connection between them. If michael gough weren't dead and Keaton could still pull off batman, burton could make a third that completely ignored the events in "forever" and "robin"
ETA: the burton films were a huge influence on BTAS (along with the superman cartoons of the 40s)
This post was edited on 7/29/12 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 7/29/12 at 1:44 pm to CGB Spender
quote:
Burton's batmans really are very good movies. He really does the one thing Nolan couldn't do and that's create a real Gotham. Plus I love the sets,
completely agree. I hope the next director goes back to doing this. I love these films but Gotham was basically Chicago in TDK and NY/Pitt in this one.
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