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Euro 2012 Final: España vs. Italia, in Kiev, 1:45 PM CST, ESPN

Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:32 pm
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:32 pm



vs.


Posted by Jumbeauxlaya
LSU
Member since Jan 2011
18083 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:33 pm to
Based on those gifs alone... Italy wins.
Posted by BraveTiger225
Atlanta, GA
Member since May 2008
17662 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:33 pm to
Their first game wasn't completely miserable to watch, but I detect an unfortunate snoozefest.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28614 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:36 pm to
Come on Italy
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:38 pm to
quote:

Based on those gifs alone... Italy wins.



Fabregas' penalty is actually quite impressive, given the fact that that placement is 99.9999% impossible to save unless a keeper lines up out of position.
This post was edited on 6/28/12 at 4:39 pm
Posted by Dandy Lion
Member since Feb 2010
50248 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:43 pm to
quote:

Fabregas' penalty is actually quite impressive, given the fact that that placement is 99.9999% impossible to save unless a keeper lines up out of position.

stop
making
sense
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:45 pm to
This is a battle between Xavi and Pirlo. Two of the most underrated midfielders who have become appropriately rated with changes in the game. Like I said, the team with the better DLP usually does well at these tournaments. Both are magnificent players, but I like Pirlo just a smidgen more.
Posted by Fat Bastard
coach, investor, gambler
Member since Mar 2009
72507 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:46 pm to
forza italia. payback time for 2008 euro when spain knocked them out on PK's.

to all the people who thought germany would rout italy.....

Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28614 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:46 pm to
I'll also give Pirlo the edge. I don't think Xavi is as effective when Xabi is on the pitch.
Posted by Bho
Lexington
Member since Dec 2007
24804 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:49 pm to
Does Spain have Balotelli? Italy rolls. Swagotelli gonna Swag.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:50 pm to
quote:

I'll also give Pirlo the edge. I don't think Xavi is as effective when Xabi is on the pitch.



I agree. Pirlo has much more creative control over Italy. He does have Montolivo who loves to play the final ball, but he plays much closer to the strikers.

If Alonso plays, then I think the game will be much more pensive on Spain's end. I see no reason why he won't play, even though I think the combo of Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets is way better. It should also be noted that Spain has more playmakers who require the ball at their feet which might lessen Xavi's influence.

But in pure terms, Xavi and Pirlo are as close in terms of skill as any two players. The final result will depend on how they are deployed.
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 4:56 pm to
quote:

I don't think Xavi is as effective when Xabi is on the pitch.


Passes completed: 455

Passing Accuracy: 85%

I don't think he's as noticeable because he's not assisting goals to Messi, Villa, Torres, as he does for Barça/Spain usually.

He's still doing his main job, retaining/recycling possession, damn well.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28614 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 5:00 pm to
quote:

But in pure terms, Xavi and Pirlo are as close in terms of skill as any two players. The final result will depend on how they are deployed.



No doubt. I made a post praising both players and their role in modern football several months ago in this thread. We owe a lot to them.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 5:02 pm to
Stats don't tell the story though. It's that Xavi is restricted in his vertical movement when Alonso is on the pitch, since Xavi wants to come deep to collect the ball and dictate play. He wants options in front of him to pass to, and then for them to pass back to him so he can look for holes in the D. With Alonso AND Busquets behind him, and they are always behind him, his passing options are limited, as well as his ability to move back toward his own goal. Alonso and Busquets are completely static in their horizontal movement, so the only space Xavi is offered is directly in front of them, almost always shadowed by the opposing holding player. This creates a situation where Xavi cannot dictate tempo in the way that he wants, and Spain can't play effectively through the middle. They play better when they add more width, but I think they would play much better if they paired Xavi and Iniesta together with Busquets behind, allowing for more vertical movement from their midfield three.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28614 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 5:04 pm to
quote:

He's still doing his main job, retaining/recycling possession, damn well.



But he isn't able to dictate and control the offense like he does at FCB or Pirlo does for Italy.
Posted by sgallo3
Dorne
Member since Sep 2008
24747 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 5:05 pm to
quote:

Stats don't tell the story though. It's that Xavi is restricted in his vertical movement when Alonso is on the pitch, since Xavi wants to come deep to collect the ball and dictate play. He wants options in front of him to pass to, and then for them to pass back to him so he can look for holes in the D. With Alonso AND Busquets behind him, and they are always behind him, his passing options are limited, as well as his ability to move back toward his own goal. Alonso and Busquets are completely static in their horizontal movement, so the only space Xavi is offered is directly in front of them, almost always shadowed by the opposing holding player. This creates a situation where Xavi cannot dictate tempo in the way that he wants, and Spain can't play effectively through the middle. They play better when they add more width, but I think they would play much better if they paired Xavi and Iniesta together with Busquets behind, allowing for more vertical movement from their midfield three.


all of this
Posted by wm72
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2010
7797 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 5:06 pm to
quote:

But in pure terms, Xavi and Pirlo are as close in terms of skill as any two players. The final result will depend on how they are deployed.


No doubt. I made a post praising both players and their role in modern football several months ago in this thread. We owe a lot to them.


That was one of the best posts ever on this board.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 5:09 pm to
Yeah I remember that thread. I also remember this one. LINK

and this one. LINK

I've been talking about Pirlo for a long time on this board. I'm glad he's finally getting the recognition he deserves.
Posted by Jumbeauxlaya
LSU
Member since Jan 2011
18083 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 5:10 pm to
quote:

Fabregas' penalty is actually quite impressive, given the fact that that placement is 99.9999% impossible to save unless a keeper lines up out of position.


Truth be told I thought it was pirlo and Ramos chips is all, in which case I stick with Italy winning. But yes cescs slightly edges Mario's in this case.. I might give the edge to swag if they went again though, seeing as he's 9/9
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 6/28/12 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

Stats don't tell the story though. It's that Xavi is restricted in his vertical movement when Alonso is on the pitch, since Xavi wants to come deep to collect the ball and dictate play. He wants options in front of him to pass to, and then for them to pass back to him so he can look for holes in the D. With Alonso AND Busquets behind him, and they are always behind him, his passing options are limited, as well as his ability to move back toward his own goal. Alonso and Busquets are completely static in their horizontal movement, so the only space Xavi is offered is directly in front of them, almost always shadowed by the opposing holding player. This creates a situation where Xavi cannot dictate tempo in the way that he wants, and Spain can't play effectively through the middle. They play better when they add more width, but I think they would play much better if they paired Xavi and Iniesta together with Busquets behind, allowing for more vertical movement from their midfield three.



I agree with this wholeheartedly. Although, I think Xavi's effectiveness would still be aided if Spain employed a true forward-moving striker instead of Fabregas. Cesc is far less likely to challenge a defender with his snail's pace. I don't think either of the two aforementioned options will be exercised given Fabregas' effective masquerade as a center forward and Alonso's fine play this tournament.
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