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Started By
Message
re: Serious question on .45
Posted on 8/4/13 at 11:52 am to bulldog95
Posted on 8/4/13 at 11:52 am to bulldog95
I decided to switch to two standard calibers and thought long and hard about 10mm. I wanted a G29 really badly.
Ultimately, until I can reload more regularly it won't work. Picked up a G36 yesterday, so now I plan to add a HK45c/Glock 20/Sig 220 and a nice 1911.
My problem is there aren't a lot of great 1911 options in that price range anymore. Best value I can see appears to be Dan Wesson in the 1200-1600 range.
Ultimately, until I can reload more regularly it won't work. Picked up a G36 yesterday, so now I plan to add a HK45c/Glock 20/Sig 220 and a nice 1911.
My problem is there aren't a lot of great 1911 options in that price range anymore. Best value I can see appears to be Dan Wesson in the 1200-1600 range.
2
Posted on 8/4/13 at 12:26 pm to Pettifogger
Plenty of great options for a 1911 less than $1000. Few snobs that don't shot well enough to matter if they had a beater RIA or a full blown custom might deride those options but they are plenty of gun for any non-pro. RIA, STI Spartans, SA Mil-Spec, the afore mentioned Ruger and Winchester offerings, Taurus, Auto-Ordnance, Para....if you can't find something and spend less than $900 you aren't trying very hard or you've somehow convinced yourself you want to spend that much to impress somebody.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 12:37 pm to bulldog95
I worked with and used military 1911s in the military. The last military 1911 was manufactured in 1945.
The 1911 is the AK-47 of pistols. The design was never intended to be a precision weapon. The ones I carried and worked on were made by Singer Sewing Machine Co., Remington Rand, Union Switch & Signal, etc.
They rattled, clanked, and were anything but tight (like an AK47), but worked like champs when in the muck of combat (I have my Grandfather's 1911 from WWI)
I've never understood the concept of a precision .45 any more than I would understand a precision AK47.
That said, the .45 that felt and acted most like the ones I carried and my Grandfather's 1911 is the Rock Island Armory product. There may be others as well, but the Rock Island was authentic feeling and it shot like a champ out of the box (it belonged to somebody else who asked me to fire it).
It's not the manufacturer, it's the design. So long as it is an authentic military replica, it'll work. And if you need to do any tweaking, they're super-simple work on.
The 1911 is the AK-47 of pistols. The design was never intended to be a precision weapon. The ones I carried and worked on were made by Singer Sewing Machine Co., Remington Rand, Union Switch & Signal, etc.
They rattled, clanked, and were anything but tight (like an AK47), but worked like champs when in the muck of combat (I have my Grandfather's 1911 from WWI)
I've never understood the concept of a precision .45 any more than I would understand a precision AK47.
That said, the .45 that felt and acted most like the ones I carried and my Grandfather's 1911 is the Rock Island Armory product. There may be others as well, but the Rock Island was authentic feeling and it shot like a champ out of the box (it belonged to somebody else who asked me to fire it).
It's not the manufacturer, it's the design. So long as it is an authentic military replica, it'll work. And if you need to do any tweaking, they're super-simple work on.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 12:55 pm to bulldog95
Posted on 8/4/13 at 1:00 pm to Drummin Fool
I want that too!
Posted on 8/4/13 at 1:03 pm to KingRanch
quote:
I want that too!
quote:
3" 1911
: motherfricking casty :
Posted on 8/4/13 at 1:04 pm to Yat27
I know :(
Posted on 8/4/13 at 2:14 pm to Clames
Depends on what you're looking for. For a range gun, part time HD, etc, sure. But for a carry piece or dedicated HD 1911, I don't want to spend 500 bucks to find out my Taurus isn't reliable enough for that usage (or 900 for my Para or even Kimber).
The 1911 isn't the platform for rock solid reliability for most people. I like them, but they have to earn my trust. If I was going to pay close to 1000 for one, why not pay a few hundred more for one that is going to be a bit more likely to eat anything I feed it?
I do think Ruger, RIA, STI, SA are good values. In that price range, I'd gravitate toward the R1 or SA/Sig's offerings.
The 1911 isn't the platform for rock solid reliability for most people. I like them, but they have to earn my trust. If I was going to pay close to 1000 for one, why not pay a few hundred more for one that is going to be a bit more likely to eat anything I feed it?
I do think Ruger, RIA, STI, SA are good values. In that price range, I'd gravitate toward the R1 or SA/Sig's offerings.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 2:35 pm to CoastieGM
quote:.
I worked with and used military 1911s in the military. The last military 1911 was manufactured in 1945. The 1911 is the AK-47 of pistols. The design was never intended to be a precision weapon. The ones I carried and worked on were made by Singer Sewing Machine Co., Remington Rand, Union Switch & Signal, etc. They rattled, clanked, and were anything but tight (like an AK47), but worked like champs when in the muck of combat (I have my Grandfather's 1911 from WWI) I've never understood the concept of a precision .45 any more than I would understand a precision AK47. That said, the .45 that felt and acted most like the ones I carried and my Grandfather's 1911 is the Rock Island Armory product. There may be others as well, but the Rock Island was authentic feeling and it shot like a champ out of the box (it belonged to somebody else who asked me to fire it). It's not the manufacturer, it's the design. So long as it is an authentic military replica, it'll work. And if you need to do any tweaking, they're super-simple work on.
1. True ^^^^
2. Commander size 1911 will, generally, be less reliable than the Govt. size weapon.
3. As was mentioned earlier, as the "high -end" manufacturers tightened up the precision//accuracy of their 1911, the prices rose and the reliability (especially when dirty) declined. When you tighten tolerances between moving parts, dirt and crud = increased chances of jams. Which is why Coastie emphasized the "looseness" of the military issued 1911's. (The ones I shot at Uncle Sam's request were equally loose).
4. Today's top tier SD handguns (M&P, Glock, HK, SIG, etc.), irrespective of caliber of model number, are built to "combat tolerances." They won't shoot one-inch groups at 25 yards, but they'll usually go "bang" every time you pull the trigger.
5. So some of this discussion has been comparing apples to cucumbers. The OP wants a nice looking, decent 1911. He has a budget. He asked for advice. Then the urine began to flow.
6. The OP has said he just wants a nice 1911 -- and it's not for SD. So the advice from KR (as always) is valid in picking a 1911 (although personally, I still have a grudge against Ruger because of their unnatural sex acts with Bill Clinton in 1994).
7. Too bad this forum doesn't have PM. The OP could have sent a message to KR, and all the ancillary b.s. could have been minimized.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 2:42 pm to Pettifogger
What makes you think cost =reliability for a 1911 or any platform for that matter? I've had more stoppages with my USP (1) than my sub-$700 1911 (0). I have a sub-$400 RIA fullsize I'm doing some work on and it's never had a problem in nearly 20 years aside from getting full of enough crud I had to soak it in a bucket of carb cleaner for a few days after stipping it.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 3:55 pm to Clames
quote:
What makes you think cost =reliability for a 1911 or any platform for that matter? I've had more stoppages with my USP (1) than my sub-$700 1911 (0). I have a sub-$400 RIA fullsize I'm doing some work on and it's never had a problem in nearly 20 years aside from getting full of enough crud I had to soak it in a bucket of carb cleaner for a few days after stipping it.
I'm sure I can find someone who has experienced more FTEs with a Glock than a Taurus, but I don't think that is the rule. Money doesn't necessarily equate to quality or reliability, but it will frequently.
Paying more is just sometimes a shortcut to gaining a solid trust in a weapon, assuming that goes along with stellar reputation/history of performance. I'd put a Les Baer or TRP through its paces just like a Para Ordnance, but would I feel a little better about a 1911 from a maker known for quality vs. one known to be hit or miss? Of course.
This post was edited on 8/4/13 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 8/4/13 at 4:00 pm to CoastieGM
quote:
I've never understood the concept of a precision .45
Me either.
The best feeling 1911 I've ever shot is that million round ragged out POS rental at precision. Pretty damn sloppy worn out gun.
First thing I'd do if I were to buy any 1911 would be pull it apart, liberally apply lapping compound, and run some +P's through it until I felt it was worn in enough to be trusted.
The only guns I like to be tight and precise are my bolt action rifles and revolvers. I like everything else to be loose, easy to operate, and guaranteed to put out like I wanted it to.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 4:19 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
First thing I'd do if I were to ... run some +P's through it until I felt it was worn in enough to be trusted.
That's my thought. Rather than pay an extra $300 for a finely made weapon, get a rougher one and run $300 worth of ammo through it to totally break it in. Much more fun that way.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 4:32 pm to CoastieGM
Yea...
I know you can make something both tight and reliable with good enough manufacturing, but I'd rather not sell everything I own to buy one nor do I want a speck of dust to compromise it.
I like my guns like I like my women.
I know you can make something both tight and reliable with good enough manufacturing, but I'd rather not sell everything I own to buy one nor do I want a speck of dust to compromise it.
I like my guns like I like my women.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 4:40 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:Black, big and Loud?
I like my guns like I like my women.
This post was edited on 8/4/13 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 8/4/13 at 4:41 pm to CoastieGM
Sloppy, loose, very easy to make it do what you want it to do, and preferably black
Posted on 8/4/13 at 5:01 pm to Pettifogger
So why any reservations about a RIA? They've been making good, solid 1911's decades longer than any custom shop. Cast vs. forged frames? Doesn't matter unless you are building a competition gun. You could put one of each in the hands of anyone who posts here and they wouldn't know the difference. Most of the 4 figure customs are CNC'd from barstock which could only be claimed as forged because it was rolled at the mill. Certainly not as strong as a nearer net-shape forging but you couldn't tell the snobs that.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 6:36 pm to Clames
quote:
Pretty sure a match tuned Glock, HK, Sig, Beretta, AR, and many others suffer similar reliability issues.
Having shot IDPA matches for more than a few years (more than I can count on my fingers), I must confess that I'm not familiar with "match tuned" Glocks, HK's Berettaa and SIGs. No offense intended, but I suspect you're not either.
Glocks, M&P's, HK's and the original (European) SIGs rarely exhibit reliability issues "out of the box." This is why so many LE agencies issue them. All these guns are also available with DAO triggers, which adds to their appeal for LE use.
Conversely, it's pretty rare to find large LE agencies that issue 1911's to their officers. Sure, there are a few. But the term "few and far between " quickly comes to mind.
If you, or anyone else, is truly a sycophant of JMB, I presume you pin the grip safety on your 1911 -- since JMB's design did not include this feature. He added the grip safety at the insistence of the US military, as a condition of their placing the initial military order.
Anyone who touts the reliability of "out-of-the-box" 1911's should Google "1911 reliability packages." Or go to www.1911forum.com and do a search for this term. Major gunsmithing shops make a good living selling these packages.
The OP will still be fine with most any "quality" 1911 (I'll leave specific brand recommendations to KR) for his stated purpose. But if the OP's purpose were to change to SD, he might need to re-examine his options.
Posted on 8/4/13 at 6:51 pm to dawg23
Coastie... Absolutely excellent post! 
Absolutely.
When I'm at the range, my guns are typically bone dry the entire time I am there. My S&W 1911 has been a bit picky about cleanliness, whereas the other work horses (Beretta 90 two, M&P Core, SR9c) all ran no matter what happened. If you want accuracy, you'll unfortunately have to pay for it in reliability.
If you want something that will generally shoot where you point it, any of the polymer/metal framed double stack handguns Dawg listed will run like champs.
The best advice for getting a SD 1911 is getting a good feel for it and feeding it a bunch of different types of ammo. If it starts to get picky, you usually end up having to try different magazines (Wilson, Cobra, Checkmate, and Chip McCormick are great mags). And once your gun runs and you know it runs, there is no question anymore.
I'm glad I wasn't old enough to know the gravity of their decisions back then because I love their products now.
I also think they earned some respect back when they were really big in fighting for gun rights this year. S&W has been the same way in that they really stepped up to the plate for their customers.
/end hijack
quote:
4. Today's top tier SD handguns (M&P, Glock, HK, SIG, etc.), irrespective of caliber of model number, are built to "combat tolerances." They won't shoot one-inch groups at 25 yards, but they'll usually go "bang" every time you pull the trigger.
Absolutely.
When I'm at the range, my guns are typically bone dry the entire time I am there. My S&W 1911 has been a bit picky about cleanliness, whereas the other work horses (Beretta 90 two, M&P Core, SR9c) all ran no matter what happened. If you want accuracy, you'll unfortunately have to pay for it in reliability.
If you want something that will generally shoot where you point it, any of the polymer/metal framed double stack handguns Dawg listed will run like champs.
The best advice for getting a SD 1911 is getting a good feel for it and feeding it a bunch of different types of ammo. If it starts to get picky, you usually end up having to try different magazines (Wilson, Cobra, Checkmate, and Chip McCormick are great mags). And once your gun runs and you know it runs, there is no question anymore.
quote:
6. The OP has said he just wants a nice 1911 -- and it's not for SD. So the advice from KR (as always) is valid in picking a 1911 (although personally, I still have a grudge against Ruger because of their unnatural sex acts with Bill Clinton in 1994).
I'm glad I wasn't old enough to know the gravity of their decisions back then because I love their products now.
I also think they earned some respect back when they were really big in fighting for gun rights this year. S&W has been the same way in that they really stepped up to the plate for their customers.
/end hijack
This post was edited on 8/4/13 at 6:53 pm
Posted on 8/4/13 at 6:58 pm to dawg23
quote:
6. The OP has said he just wants a nice 1911 -- and it's not for SD. So the advice from KR (as always) is valid in picking a 1911 (although personally, I still have a grudge against Ruger because of their unnatural sex acts with Bill Clinton in 1994).
I still haven't gotten over the abomination the mini14/30 is...
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