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Started By
Message
re: Republican-Sponsored Anti-Gun Bill - Take Action!
Posted on 10/13/17 at 9:03 pm to Scoob
Posted on 10/13/17 at 9:03 pm to Scoob
quote:
We need to present as sensible, mature and responsible to this crowd. Digging in our heels and saying "you can't take away my slide-fire stock, it's mine, it's legal and the 2nd Amendment says I can have it", right now, will alienate the vast majority of the country.
This bill doesn't take away slide fire stocks specifically.
quote:
The NRA is pushing to regulate them. A Republican is sponsoring a bill about them. This isn't business as usual.
Please provide a link to the NRA pushing to regulate slide fire stocks?
1
Posted on 10/13/17 at 9:06 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
AlxTgr
You still haven't provided a single reason why my argument is a "poor argument".
Posted on 10/13/17 at 9:06 pm to Scoob
quote:
We need to present as sensible, mature and responsible to this crowd. Digging in our heels and saying "you can't take away my slide-fire stock, it's mine, it's legal and the 2nd Amendment says I can have it", right now, will alienate the vast majority of the country.
Ummmm...we've been making gun-control advocacy bitch-made for almost 30 years. We've done it by NOT compromising and attacking gun-control regulations across the country. After 1994, there will be no more compromise.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 9:12 pm to Clames
That's the truth! They had their eutopia for 10 years and AR-15's were banned and it didn't do a thing.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 11:06 pm to civiltiger07
quote:LINK
Please provide a link to the NRA pushing to regulate slide fire stocks?
quote:This has popped up on multiple news sites, both pro and anti gun leaning.
In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.
Here's a pro site, with a link to the article.
LINK
I've also seen this discussed on the S&W forums. It's quite a debate, just as the comments on the linked forum show.
One side is vehemently holding ground on the right to your bump-fire stocks, and calls the NRA sellouts.
The other side says the NRA is making a smart play, pushing for the BATFE to regulate them. Doing so, they say, preempts a bigger blow; if the BATFE requires you to get a tax stamp for them, then "something" has been done, and the momentum for further Congressional actions is cut off. The federal government can say "we got this", with the backing of the NRA, and the at-large public won't feel as compelled to see further legislation.
If this goes to Congress, expect a broader sweep, perhaps addressing hi-cap magazines etc.
It's a bad situation, there are no easy answers.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 11:13 pm to Scoob
They said that knowing that a slide fire does not make a semi auto "function" like full auto. Meaning full auto you squeeze the trigger "once" and it automatically fires all rounds. Slidefires don't "function" like that...you are pulling the trigger 30 times for 30 rounds. It's the NRA being smart...go on...look at it...and by all means regulate it if it does something we know it does not.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 11:44 pm to NOLAGT
quote:
They said that knowing that a slide fire does not make a semi auto "function" like full auto. Meaning full auto you squeeze the trigger "once" and it automatically fires all rounds. Slidefires don't "function" like that...you are pulling the trigger 30 times for 30 rounds. It's the NRA being smart...go on...look at it...and by all means regulate it if it does something we know it does not.
I'm not fighting with you about this. I'm not coming after your guns, or wanting to turn mine in.
We just had the single worst shooter incident in the US, and we all heard rapid bursts of gunfire. Yes, Jerry Miculek could have sustained a higher rate of fire with just his trigger finger, but the 80% of the population that is generally ok with guns, but doesn't think about them much- they heard it as full auto. They previously perceived that as something either unavailable to the general public, or those that knew, thought it to require way too many hoops to jump through to get easily.
This changes that perception, and it's not a good change under these circumstances.
It's one thing to fight the extremist anti-gun guys, it's another animal entirely to fight the general public.
edit to add
watch this video- please tell me how you're going to convince the average person that this isn't simulating full auto.
Notice, the trigger finger isn't moving. You pull the trigger, the mag dumps at a high rate. Sure, it looks like a lot of fun, but right now, it's just too damning.
video
This post was edited on 10/14/17 at 12:03 am
Posted on 10/14/17 at 5:50 am to Scoob
quote:
I'm not coming after your guns, or wanting to turn mine in.
Nancy peloci said herself that she hopes banning bump fire stocks is a slippery slope and leads to more firearms bans/regulations.
Posted on 10/14/17 at 8:43 am to Scoob
The Florida night club didn't use any fancy slide fire or have some 1 of a kind trigger finger and killed 49. It's not the guns it's the driven people behind them who want to do harm. That guy could have bought a plane, learned how to fly, load it up with jet fuel, and then crashed right in the middle of everyone. Can't just go around banning things and taking rights because it makes the ill informed public feel warm and fuzzy. You have to get to the root of the problem, and the sad fact is, tragic shite will still happen.
Posted on 10/14/17 at 9:43 pm to NOLAGT
quote:
That guy could have bought a plane, learned how to fly, load it up with jet fuel, and then crashed right in the middle of everyone.
Paddock was a pilot and either owned a plane or had easy access to them.
Posted on 10/15/17 at 6:40 pm to civiltiger07
quote:I don't need to. It's in your post.
You still haven't provided a single reason why my argument is a "poor argument".
Posted on 10/16/17 at 8:58 am to AlxTgr
when are they supposed to vote on this?
Posted on 10/16/17 at 10:04 am to tigerfoot
quote:
tigerfoot
You just posted the perfect litmus test of the gun control crowd.
Posting a chart of "gun-related homicides" when the title of the chart says at the top in all caps "HOMICIDES PER 100,000" is purposefully misleading. If the United States has a higher density of firearms, there will inevitably be a higher rate of "gun-related deaths" but that does not accurately depict overall homicides/murders. Go to 0:37 in this video to see what I'm talking about - Stefan Molyneux lists all his sources in the second link.
LINK
LINK /
The first thing to know about how misleading those charts are is to realize that over 60% of "gun deaths" in this country are from suicides, and while suicides are bad they are inevitable. Also, even with these ease of access to guns for suicidal purposes, the US still does not have the highest suicide rate in the world. In addition, the US does not even have the highest homicide rate per 100,000 internationally. That can also be found in the links I posted.
The other misleading part of the "gun deaths" statistic is that they do not accurately describe where the murders are happening. Most happen in dense urban populations on a regular basis, yet politicians and media members will only be "outraged" by these numbers when a mass murder happens. That's what annoys most gun guys like myself - they only care about the consistent death in the inner cities when a mass murder happens somewhere it isn't "expected." Look to New Orleans or Saint Louis or even Baton Rouge weekly to see the consistent death and why it doesn't ever surprise anyone. Amidst the Noise does a good job of explaining where most crime actually happens in the US.
LINK
So let's break this down further and show why most gun guys see this proposed bill (and other proposed AWB-type bills) as fruitless and a "solution" to a non-problem:
1. An assault weapons ban was in place from 1994 to 2004. There was no discernible change in crime over that decade. Plus, when the AWB subsided, the crime rate continued to trickle downward year after year and sits at a 50% reduction since the early 90s despite record rates of gun ownership. The conclusion can be drawn that an assault weapons ban is merely symbolic and does not actually lower crime rates since long guns of all kinds account for fewer deaths each year than hands and feet. You're more likely to be beaten to death than murdered by a rifle when going by the numbers.
2. The attempted banning of bump stocks (which this bill DOES NOT specifically cover and is why it's dangerous) would also be symbolic and not affect crime rates. Despite the fact that this device exists, it is merely a novelty item and is not used in any serious capacity by respected law enforcement organizations. There are no other recorded murders with a rifle fitted with a bump stock - they are hard to shoot accurately with and waste tons of ammo. Slow, controlled fire is much more effective.
3. While some may count me out by calling me a "conspiracy theorist" I have not fully bought into what we are being told. Despite this crime happening weeks ago, we still do not have any footage from one of the most camera-dense cities in the world, even though leaked photos of the room got out to the public in short order. Plus, the Las Vegas police department, the FBI, and the Mandalay Bay itself have had GAPING inconsistencies in their stories. The Las Vegas PD has reversed statements multiple times and the FBI was very quick to rule out certain aspects of the crime just hours after the incident occurred. Not to mention a 60+ year old accountant having the skill and ability to fire a bump stock with the consistency of a true auto rifle is suspect to say the least. He seems to be the perfect scapegoat.
Am I saying this was a government-staged murderfest to come and take all of our guns? No, I'm not concluding that point. I'm merely stating that there are multitudes of unanswered questions and essential inconsistencies in the stories presented for me to take them with any credibility whatsoever. The incompetence of these investigative organizations is sickening when independent citizens on 4chan can disprove their claims. We likely will never know what actually happened in Vegas but I don't buy the story we're being fed.
Posted on 10/16/17 at 10:04 am to tigerfoot
Double Post
This post was edited on 10/16/17 at 10:05 am
Posted on 10/16/17 at 10:17 am to finchmeister08
Posted on 10/16/17 at 8:08 pm to Clames
Pelosi
Hmmm
quote:
“(Gun owners are going to) say, ‘You give them bump stock, it’s going to be a slippery slope.’ I certainly hope so
Hmmm
Posted on 10/17/17 at 9:06 am to Geauxtiga
quote:
Trump will veto it
Will he?
Posted on 10/17/17 at 9:10 am to tigerfoot
Neat chart.
Crime rates per 1000:
Japan 22.39
UK 109.96
Sweden 138.35
Germany 78.89
Canada 80.25
United States 41.29
NATO countries average 50.53
Crime rates per 1000:
Japan 22.39
UK 109.96
Sweden 138.35
Germany 78.89
Canada 80.25
United States 41.29
NATO countries average 50.53
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