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re: Open fields doctrine is being challenged in Louisiana

Posted on 3/7/24 at 4:09 pm to
Posted by turkish
Member since Aug 2016
1749 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 4:09 pm to
I infer from your lack of a retort that you think I’m right. :)
Posted by Scrowe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2010
2926 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

Land owners have a tendency to take care of their property and to hunt in a manner which will grow wildlife populations.


This is the case for non migratory game, but that is not the case as much with migratory game.
Posted by White Bear
Yonnygo
Member since Jul 2014
13882 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 4:54 pm to
quote:

I infer from your lack of a retort that you think I’m right. :)
“infer” (assume) as you please
Posted by geauxbrown
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
19450 posts
Posted on 3/7/24 at 6:53 pm to
Sadly, I have lost much respect for LEO’s and Wardens over the past few years.
Posted by Oneforthemoney
New Iberia, La
Member since Dec 2013
1788 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:26 am to
People need to start booby trapping their land and let Darwin do his thing
Posted by X123F45
Member since Apr 2015
27396 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 6:10 am to
That would be illegal.

Now shaping your roads so a 3/4 ton has zero chance of staying on top if it's been raining... And digging the edges a few feet deep. Perfectly legal.
Posted by The Torch
DFW The Dub
Member since Aug 2014
19288 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 6:12 am to
My dad had a childhood friend who got rich and bought a private duck hunting property in South Arkansas.

They would lock the gate and it was 2 1/2 to 3 miles down an old dirt road to the camp, all posted and marked private.

Freaking Green Jeans would show up at the camp 2-3 times a year checking everyone, they would walk in.


This post was edited on 3/8/24 at 6:21 am
Posted by Twenty 49
Shreveport
Member since Jun 2014
18768 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 6:58 am to
There would likely have to be some major changes in the members of the SCT to change the open fields doctrine.

Conservative justices embraced it in Oliver v. US (1984). That case arose when state police went to a farm to investigate a weed tip. Arriving at the farm, they drove past Oliver's house to a locked gate with a "No Trespassing" sign. A footpath led around one side of the gate. The agents walked around the gate and along the road for several hundred yards, passing a barn and a parked camper. At that point, someone standing in front of the camper shouted: "No hunting is allowed, come back up here." The officers shouted back that they were Kentucky State Police officers, but found no one when they returned to the camper. The officers resumed their investigation of the farm and found a field of weed over a mile from Oliver's home.

The conservative justices said the search did not violate the 4th Amendment because, using strict construction, it applies only to to "persons, houses, papers, and effects", so it does not extend to the open fields as held earlier in Hester v. United States. They also said that steps taken to protect privacy, such as planting the weed on secluded land and erecting fences and "No Trespassing" signs around the property, did not establish that expectations of privacy in an open field are legitimate in the sense required by the Fourth Amendment.

Only liberals Marshall, Brennan, and Stevens dissented.

Some of the conservatives now on the court are big on respecting property rights, but they also find every excuse to justify a search that finds drugs, so I don't see them completely tossing open fields any time soon.

This is another example of how the war on drugs has resulted in fewer constitutional rights for everyone. Go read traffic stop and auto search cases if you have any doubt.

Now a state supreme court could hold that the state constitution provides greater protection, and that could take away the open fields doctrine for state agents. But LA has elected a pretty "tuff on crime" majority that hasn't shown a proclivity for expanding con rights at the expense of law enforcement. So good luck.
Posted by btforlsu
Member since Jan 2006
196 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 7:00 am to
Just an FYI, Tom is suing for one dollar and to have the state constitution recognized and enforced.
Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
30286 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 8:21 am to
quote:

dove hunting over baited field he didn’t know was baited.


I assume this is a true statement in this case but it is often a lot like guys in prison are always innocent. Have you ever heard of anyone caught hunting over a baited field who said "Well, I guess you caught me"? It's like when the cop asks you "Do you know how fast you were going?"
Posted by Midtiger farm
Member since Nov 2014
5014 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 8:25 am to
quote:


This is the case for non migratory game, but that is not the case as much with migratory game.


Literally every person I know or have heard of who has acres of substantial waterfowl ground is really big on conservation, limiting pressure, has refuges for the ducks, etc
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
81625 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 8:31 am to
quote:

investigate a weed tip
For me, this is important. The part of all this that bothers me is when they do it based upon nothing.
Posted by boudinman
Member since Nov 2019
5042 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 11:33 am to
quote:

Tom also manages the property for wildlife conservation, recreation, and multiple other uses as well.


Tom owns the land and timber, NOT the wildlife upon it. Hence, wardens can legally check properties to see if any and all regulations are being followed.

If Tom wants to high fence his property, and then purchase his own wildlife then that's his perogative. He must first drive or export the STATE OWNED wildlife off his land.
Posted by cjackson721
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2011
30 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 11:48 am to
If game wardens had suspicion of wrong doing, they can get a warrant from a judge over the phone almost instantly and then it would be a legal search, but without they are ignoring the fourth amendment.
Posted by boudinman
Member since Nov 2019
5042 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 11:59 am to
That will never happen dude. He doesn't need to call a judge and get a warrant to go visually check on STATE OWNED wildlife. State owned wildlife doesnt stop and end at private property lines.
Posted by White Bear
Yonnygo
Member since Jul 2014
13882 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

That will never happen dude. He doesn't need to call a judge and get a warrant to go visually check on STATE OWNED wildlife. State owned wildlife doesnt stop and end at private property lines.
You would understand when I come ethically harvest a state-owned deer from your stand then?
Posted by boudinman
Member since Nov 2019
5042 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

You would understand when I come ethically harvest a state-owned deer from your stand then


Are you a state-wide law enforcement officer(game warden)fulfilling your official duties? Big difference that your mind seems to small to grasp. He can legally enter any areas searching for illegal activities such as poaching, baiting, illegal trapping, etc. If you dont like it, feel free to contact your state senator and state representative and request they pass a law stating differently. Let me know how well that works for you.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
81625 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 1:51 pm to
quote:

That will never happen dude. He doesn't need to call a judge and get a warrant to go visually check on STATE OWNED wildlife. State owned wildlife doesnt stop and end at private property lines.
You would understand when I come ethically harvest a state-owned deer from your stand then?


Just like all those South La. baws that want to fish for State owned fish in my gated canal.
Posted by White Bear
Yonnygo
Member since Jul 2014
13882 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

Big difference that your mind seems to small to grasp. He can legally enter any areas searching for illegal activities such as poaching, baiting, illegal trapping, etc. If you dont like it, feel free to contact your state senator and state representative and request they pass a law stating differently. Let me know how well that works for you.
Why are private landowners guilty by default? No different in theory than a cop rustling through your house looking for broken laws. Wtf man.
Posted by Piebald Panther
Member since Aug 2020
477 posts
Posted on 3/8/24 at 2:30 pm to
Louisiana constitution already protects against unreasonable searches for private properties. Green jeans just ignores it and thinks every property is "open field."

If they were actually competent at their job they would be able to collect evidence and build a reasonable case to get a warrant for suspected violations. Instead they harass until they can find a violation no matter how insignificant.

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