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Posted on 2/22/23 at 8:51 am to bigbuckdj
quote:
I’d probably spend a little more on some nice down stuff,
Polypropylene is VASTLY superior to down. If you can 100% guarantee that there will be no rain, then get down. If not, go poly. The only people I know that wear down are skiers on super cold bluebird says.
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 9:09 am
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:06 am to bird35
I've live here in the intermountain west for over 20 years. Worked in the outdoor (ski) industry for 10. The past year or so, been a scoutmaster with our local scout troop. I've spent a ton of days and night in the outdoors in the mountains of the western USA.
Here are my recommendations:
Jacket: Columbia is actually and affordable brand. Whatever you get, make sure it's breathable and ventable. You can also check Cabela's/Bass Pro. they have good stuff as well.
Medium weight fleece: Anything should do here.
Rain jacket and pants This is a tricky one. Personally, I lump the jacket/rain jacket together and focus on a decent pair of rain pants. The storms our west will be brief but intense. So you don't need full or gortex or anything like that.
Winter hat - Wool poly blend. Should be about 20-25 for one that will last years.
Gloves: Get a decent pair of fleece lined work gloves. Supplement that with a polypro glove liner. That give you a glove system. If the 40-50's you can wear just the liners. 30-40's the work gloves. Below that. Both. should be about $20-30
Sleeping bag rated for 20-30 degrees Go colder than what they recommend (5-10 deg). If it's really warm, you can unzip the bag and use the bag as a blanket. If you have a Big5 or Dicks near you you can get a decent bag for about $100. That's where most of our scouts get their bags and we've camped down to single digits.
Sleeping pad. Thermarest. I like the inflatable ones, but everyone is different. Don't skimp on this item. About $100 should do it.
What I didn't see on the list was good base layers. Something that will warm you at night and keep you cool during the day. Medium weight poly pro would be what I'd personally take. Merino Wool is good, but I'd bet these won't get washed many times this summer so the smell factor with the wool will be an issue after a while.
Well that's what I can think of. If anything else pops in my head, I'll update it.
ETA: Sierra Trading post
Here are my recommendations:
Jacket: Columbia is actually and affordable brand. Whatever you get, make sure it's breathable and ventable. You can also check Cabela's/Bass Pro. they have good stuff as well.
Medium weight fleece: Anything should do here.
Rain jacket and pants This is a tricky one. Personally, I lump the jacket/rain jacket together and focus on a decent pair of rain pants. The storms our west will be brief but intense. So you don't need full or gortex or anything like that.
Winter hat - Wool poly blend. Should be about 20-25 for one that will last years.
Gloves: Get a decent pair of fleece lined work gloves. Supplement that with a polypro glove liner. That give you a glove system. If the 40-50's you can wear just the liners. 30-40's the work gloves. Below that. Both. should be about $20-30
Sleeping bag rated for 20-30 degrees Go colder than what they recommend (5-10 deg). If it's really warm, you can unzip the bag and use the bag as a blanket. If you have a Big5 or Dicks near you you can get a decent bag for about $100. That's where most of our scouts get their bags and we've camped down to single digits.
Sleeping pad. Thermarest. I like the inflatable ones, but everyone is different. Don't skimp on this item. About $100 should do it.
What I didn't see on the list was good base layers. Something that will warm you at night and keep you cool during the day. Medium weight poly pro would be what I'd personally take. Merino Wool is good, but I'd bet these won't get washed many times this summer so the smell factor with the wool will be an issue after a while.
Well that's what I can think of. If anything else pops in my head, I'll update it.
ETA: Sierra Trading post
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 9:14 am
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:13 am to bird35
Check out carinthia / eberlestock sleeping bags. Compact, lightweight and kickass. Ive used my jungle bag alone down to 40 degrees. If I combine the two im cozy at -15 degrees.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 9:14 am to bird35
Check out carinthia / eberlestock sleeping bags. Compact, lightweight and kickass. Ive used my jungle bag alone down to 40 degrees. If I combine the two im cozy at -15 degrees. I backpack and cross country ski with them.
Posted on 2/23/23 at 7:11 am to kaleidoscoping
Just a heads up, scheels is at 7% off on active junky and they have 40% off a chunk of Patagonia, north face, and Columbia clothes.
Posted on 2/23/23 at 10:53 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Polypropylene is VASTLY superior to down.
I sorta disagree for garments and for a sleeping bag I strongly disagree. This isn't the military; she's going to be in a tent or bivvy sack. Money is the only reason to go synthetic for a sleeping bag in those conditions.
Posted on 2/23/23 at 10:10 pm to Flats
quote:
I sorta disagree for garments and for a sleeping bag I strongly disagree. This isn't the military; she's going to be in a tent or bivvy sack. Money is the only reason to go synthetic for a sleeping bag in those conditions.
The bottom line is down loses its insulation properties when wet. Polypropylene doesn't. I've "slept" in a wet down bag and its not an experience I ever hope to repeat. You only have to do it once to know what I'm talking about. I'll happily trade a few ounces of weight for the insurance.
Given the extreme temperature changes between day and night in the west, you can often get condensation on the inside of a tent. (Relative humidity increases as temperature decreases.) And it's not uncommon for Temps to drop 30 degrees or more over the course of a night in the western mountains. This raises the relative humidity enough that a campers breath is all that's needed to cause condensation problems. In the winter I've awaken to frost on the inside of my tent because of it.
But don't listen to me. I've only lived, played and camped in the exact conditions shes likely to see for over 20 years...
This post was edited on 2/23/23 at 10:29 pm
Posted on 2/23/23 at 11:26 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
But don't listen to me.
I wouldn’t listen to anyone who doesn’t understand tent ventilation. And bivvy sacks don’t have that issue at all.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 10:39 am to Flats
quote:To be truthful he's spot on with twenty year old information.
I wouldn’t listen to anyone who doesn’t understand tent ventilation. And bivvy sacks don’t have that issue at all.
However besides there being treated (to water) down these days, she's going to a YMCA camp where they'll teach her how to ventilate, and poly-pro was eclipsed about thirty years ago.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 12:46 pm to awestruck
And the great thing about America is you can buy what you want, and I'll buy what I want. If you read the OP, you'll realize that dad is on a budget and doesn't want to break the bank outfitting the kid for summer camp. Well, where does that point? A synthetic bag. They are the most flexible system out there for the widest range of conditions. Period. Do they have their cons? Yes. IMO, do the cons outweigh the pros? Yes.
And of course I know how to ventilate a tent. I spent at almost 3 weeks sleeping outside last year from 90-95 in the Utah desert to sub freezing temps near Yellowstone. Guess what, weather changes. Sometimes it changes rapidly enough overnight that what you did going to sleep isn't right by the time you wake up. Sometimes, you're just too lazy and the outside temps cool to crawl out of your nice warm bag and unzip things. So guess what? I frosted myself before. Also guess what? I lived.
And there are conditions where you can't ventilate your sleeping arrangements like in a snow cave or igloo. I've slept in those too. Your body heat is enough to start the snow melting in both of those structures. (However, I'll fully concede that these are not what the OP's kid will experience this summer.)
And regardless of how well you ventilate, you cannot overcome the dew point. The dew point at 75 F in the mountains with 35% relative humidity is 46 degs F (Very typical conditions for this part of the world). Temps can easily fall to the 40's and below low overnight in the high mountains. No matter how well you ventilate, you'll still get condensation because the humidity is close to 100%. It's simple physics.
As I said, buy what you want. But for the conditions laid out in the OP (cost, age and experience of the camper and the conditions it will be used it), synthetic is the answer. Sorry, but it's the truth.
And of course I know how to ventilate a tent. I spent at almost 3 weeks sleeping outside last year from 90-95 in the Utah desert to sub freezing temps near Yellowstone. Guess what, weather changes. Sometimes it changes rapidly enough overnight that what you did going to sleep isn't right by the time you wake up. Sometimes, you're just too lazy and the outside temps cool to crawl out of your nice warm bag and unzip things. So guess what? I frosted myself before. Also guess what? I lived.
And there are conditions where you can't ventilate your sleeping arrangements like in a snow cave or igloo. I've slept in those too. Your body heat is enough to start the snow melting in both of those structures. (However, I'll fully concede that these are not what the OP's kid will experience this summer.) And regardless of how well you ventilate, you cannot overcome the dew point. The dew point at 75 F in the mountains with 35% relative humidity is 46 degs F (Very typical conditions for this part of the world). Temps can easily fall to the 40's and below low overnight in the high mountains. No matter how well you ventilate, you'll still get condensation because the humidity is close to 100%. It's simple physics.
As I said, buy what you want. But for the conditions laid out in the OP (cost, age and experience of the camper and the conditions it will be used it), synthetic is the answer. Sorry, but it's the truth.
This post was edited on 2/24/23 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 2/24/23 at 2:49 pm to Lonnie Utah
TL/DR - stopped here
And if you'd bother that's what me and most have been offering. I just didn't try to pass off a mere 20 (?) years of experience as a fitting answer. I'm still waiting to see what needs to be light and what has to be packable. I'd not spend any money until then.
quote:
. If you read the OP, you'll realize that dad is on a budget
And if you'd bother that's what me and most have been offering. I just didn't try to pass off a mere 20 (?) years of experience as a fitting answer. I'm still waiting to see what needs to be light and what has to be packable. I'd not spend any money until then.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 4:15 pm to awestruck
quote:
I just didn't try to pass off a mere 20 (?) years of experience as a fitting answer.
And I, with almost 50 years worth....
Posted on 2/24/23 at 4:24 pm to Lonnie Utah
Marmot has an extra 20% off the already basically half off sale stuff
Posted on 2/24/23 at 8:00 pm to Lonnie Utah
Posted on 2/24/23 at 8:24 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:0K, let's play - it's the weekend and we're still waiting on the OP
50 years
Last time through Utah it was on a 5 1/2 month trip starting out near the Apache Reservation between Show Low and Globe (AZ). Was between jobs and following the snow melt as it went up. Got as far as Paradise (ID) this round. Not as far north as some times, nor as far south as others. Just one of several in, through, and even around Utah. Came back near 35 lbs lighter but started out having added some reserves.
Real nice place, good people, although food's not always easily found. Not in those places you really want to stay long. Jus chatting - HAGD - it's hard to tell who knows what around here sometimes.
Btw: taking extended trips between jobs come highly recommended - everyone should plan on it at least once.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 10:37 pm to awestruck
quote:
I'd not spend any money until then.
That’s one reason why down isn’t always bad choice. It’s more up front but it’s not going to go flat after multiple compressions. I have some synthetic stuff that I researched, bought and like, and it’s all I used in the military. It’s all I WOULD use in military conditions, but I don’t think it’s automatically the best answer for everyone.
Posted on 2/24/23 at 11:09 pm to Flats
She going to be working in a camp. So it's a bit different than a week or two and done. Not as specific and hence not really an either or but a few.
Maybe (not knowing) a down sweater under a rain coat, plus something pile, and a couple layers under it. How much...based on how easy to wash. Plus a bunch of warm gear for summer. That's why the buff head gear for sweating hair and such. Sleeping bags I splurge on because of feeling with a good nights sleep you can go on and on for days. So yeah cheap is key, especially with a growing girl.
Maybe (not knowing) a down sweater under a rain coat, plus something pile, and a couple layers under it. How much...based on how easy to wash. Plus a bunch of warm gear for summer. That's why the buff head gear for sweating hair and such. Sleeping bags I splurge on because of feeling with a good nights sleep you can go on and on for days. So yeah cheap is key, especially with a growing girl.
This post was edited on 2/24/23 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 2/25/23 at 12:17 am to awestruck
quote:
Sleeping bags I splurge on because of feeling with a good nights sleep you can go on and on for days. So yeah cheap is key, especially with a growing girl.
Sleeping bags are also worth splurging on because you don't outgrow them. They're also THE most likely item to get compressed repeatedly.
Posted on 2/26/23 at 8:04 am to Landmass
quote:
Get a jacket from Columbia.
I particularly vouch for their rainshell jacket. Best travel gear I’ve ever bought. Good for anything from the Rockies to European travel.
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