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Message
re: Hobie Mirage Drive 180
Posted on 2/16/17 at 10:07 am to AlxTgr
Posted on 2/16/17 at 10:07 am to AlxTgr
quote:
two Wildy Radars are under $1,500.
The price for the radars are just for the kayak. That doesn't include the drive, which will come out this spring and costs $1100 by itself. Not to mention that price also doesn't include a rudder. You'd have to get on put on with a hand control if you wanted to later buy the pedal drive.
I had been recently looking at the Perception Pilot which is $1799. I won't say who I talked to because I don't think this vendor was supposed to tell me this, but there have been a ton of warranty issues with the perception pedal drive and Academy has completely pulled them from their stores because of this. If you were thinking of buying the pilot, I was advised to wait a few months until they fix the issues with the drive.
This post was edited on 2/16/17 at 10:10 am
1
Posted on 2/16/17 at 10:09 am to Aggie Fishfinder
Oh...thanks.
Posted on 2/16/17 at 10:11 am to GeauxMatt624
I own a Slayer Propel 13 and I have seen videos of the Hobie 180 drive. Like someone else said, don't limit yourself to those two options. Watch videos of ICAST 2016 for other companies that have pedal drives.
Here are my thoughts on Hobie vs Native:
Hobie is a better kayak in terms of fit and finish. I don't know if the quality of the Native matches the Hobie. Not that it's bad, but I think Hobie sets the bar.
For the reverse drive performance, I would give the Native the edge. It's so easy to instantly go from forward to reverse hands free. When I hook a fish close to the bank, I automatically start back pedaling to get away from brush, etc. When I'm standing up and fishing, I can use one hand to bend over and spin the pedals forward or backwards. Having a mechanism that switches between forward and reverse just creates the opportunity for something else to break.
If I had to choose between Hobie and Native based on the ability to go in reverse, I'd choose the Native again. However, you have more choices now than just those two. You'll probably be happy with either kayak, to be honest.
Here are my thoughts on Hobie vs Native:
Hobie is a better kayak in terms of fit and finish. I don't know if the quality of the Native matches the Hobie. Not that it's bad, but I think Hobie sets the bar.
For the reverse drive performance, I would give the Native the edge. It's so easy to instantly go from forward to reverse hands free. When I hook a fish close to the bank, I automatically start back pedaling to get away from brush, etc. When I'm standing up and fishing, I can use one hand to bend over and spin the pedals forward or backwards. Having a mechanism that switches between forward and reverse just creates the opportunity for something else to break.
If I had to choose between Hobie and Native based on the ability to go in reverse, I'd choose the Native again. However, you have more choices now than just those two. You'll probably be happy with either kayak, to be honest.
Posted on 2/16/17 at 3:04 pm to GeauxMatt624
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm going to demo the natives and the Hobie Outback. The people at Pack and Paddle (employee and a random customer) said there is no comparison though. They both said the Outback is the superior product and gave me a huge list of reasons why. A big reason was the ease of working on the mirage drive vs the propel drive. Apparently it's $200 to take the propel apart to work on it and they are frequently getting brought back in with problems. Also, the propel is basically useless in shallow water and grass, where you can still pedal the Hobie. The employee said the natives are good boats but not in the Hobies league.
Posted on 2/16/17 at 3:51 pm to Dtiger19
Hmm thats surprising to me. I feel like all of the videos I see, John is in that orange Native. One of his videos are even on the Slayer 13 page on the Native website.
I get back from my honeymoon on March 5th and will be heading to Pack & Paddle the next weekend to demo an Outback and the Slayer 13 (maybe an Old Town PDL if they have one in stock). The new wife said she will pay for part of it as a wedding present
I get back from my honeymoon on March 5th and will be heading to Pack & Paddle the next weekend to demo an Outback and the Slayer 13 (maybe an Old Town PDL if they have one in stock). The new wife said she will pay for part of it as a wedding present
This post was edited on 2/16/17 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 2/16/17 at 4:35 pm to Dtiger19
quote:I would have never guessed this. My perception, just from looking and not using, is that Hobies are either giant, which I don't want, or toyish looking/feeling in the smaller models. I have never considered any of their models in my shopping.
The people at Pack and Paddle (employee and a random customer) said there is no comparison though. They both said the Outback is the superior product and gave me a huge list of reasons why.
Posted on 2/16/17 at 6:31 pm to AlxTgr
I own an Outback but am really interested in the Jackson and Feel Free pedals coming out.
Posted on 2/16/17 at 6:35 pm to AlxTgr
I went in kinda expecting them to be praising the native drive but it was the exact opposite. The guy still recommended me demoing the slayer and manta ray as well as the Outback and decide for myself but made it clear what he thought the better product was. Apparently they are one of the only places to work on the propel drives in the area so they see all of the problems it's having and the difficulty of actually working on them.
Posted on 2/16/17 at 7:15 pm to Dtiger19
When the Slayer Propels first came out, the most similar pedal drive kayak was the Pro angler and it was an extra $500 at the time. The Outback was still popular, but at the time they were $1800ish with a not so comfortable seat... inexcusable in a kayak for that price.
Many people, including myself, jumped in and bought a slayer. In regards to an earlier comment, no the propel drive does not work nearly as well in grass and weeds as the mirage drive does. I recall bringing the slayer out to Delacroix once and was so frustrated with having to constantly pull the drive up and untangle the grass from the prop.
Also, there were quite a few ruined drives that had to be rebuilt due to the "not so sealed" bearings and saltwater.
Speed wise they are similar, so don't expect one to blow the other away.
Best bet is to go out and demo them side by side.
Many people, including myself, jumped in and bought a slayer. In regards to an earlier comment, no the propel drive does not work nearly as well in grass and weeds as the mirage drive does. I recall bringing the slayer out to Delacroix once and was so frustrated with having to constantly pull the drive up and untangle the grass from the prop.
Also, there were quite a few ruined drives that had to be rebuilt due to the "not so sealed" bearings and saltwater.
Speed wise they are similar, so don't expect one to blow the other away.
Best bet is to go out and demo them side by side.
Posted on 2/16/17 at 7:35 pm to GeauxMatt624
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/12/20 at 8:36 am
Posted on 2/16/17 at 9:50 pm to Dtiger19
If I had to guess, the people you were talking to were probably on the Hobie Fishing team and get free shite in return for telling you that.
I have owned both native slayer propel 13 and hobie outback for 2 years. Both are great boats and I completely disagree with Hobie being in a different league. I also disagree on $200 to take the drive apart. My preferred boat is the native. I'll give you a more detailed review in the morning when I get to my office computer on pros and cons of both boats.
Also the seal issues mentioned a couple posts up are no longer an issue. These issues were with the 301 series drives which stopped being produced a few years ago. All the new propel drives are the 401 series with redesigned seals and no longer have this problem.
I have owned both native slayer propel 13 and hobie outback for 2 years. Both are great boats and I completely disagree with Hobie being in a different league. I also disagree on $200 to take the drive apart. My preferred boat is the native. I'll give you a more detailed review in the morning when I get to my office computer on pros and cons of both boats.
Also the seal issues mentioned a couple posts up are no longer an issue. These issues were with the 301 series drives which stopped being produced a few years ago. All the new propel drives are the 401 series with redesigned seals and no longer have this problem.
This post was edited on 2/16/17 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 2/16/17 at 11:36 pm to Mark Makers
Thanks, Chalupa but I am looking to go with the full size 13.
MarkMakers if you could do a pro-con that would be much appreciated. I have buddies who have Hobies and Natives that I plan on trying out, it's just hard to get real impressions of boats only using them for a few hours.
My main criteria are to be able to cover a lot of ground, stability, trolling for specks/bass and easy to transport.
MarkMakers if you could do a pro-con that would be much appreciated. I have buddies who have Hobies and Natives that I plan on trying out, it's just hard to get real impressions of boats only using them for a few hours.
My main criteria are to be able to cover a lot of ground, stability, trolling for specks/bass and easy to transport.
Posted on 2/17/17 at 8:18 am to YOURADHERE
quote:
I'll be in the market for a used Gheenoe.
Just get one. You won't be disappointed
Posted on 2/21/17 at 12:43 pm to Mark Makers
Sorry for the delay on this....and the long windedness. Hope this may help you make a decision.
As stated, I've owned both a Native Propel 13 and a Hobie Outback for 2 years now. I recently upgraded both of them to the newest models.
Both are great, well-built kayaks, in a similar price range. They both have their pros and cons, and each has their own specific applications which they excel in. It really all comes down to personal preference and demoing both to make a decision on which one fits your style best.
With that being said, the ONLY reason I still have a Hobie Outback is because my wife prefers it and finds she can handle it better by herself, the drive is lighter weight for her to take in and out, etc. If she didn't like it, I wouldn't have it.
Although the reverse on the mirage drive is a nice added feature, it still cannot compete with Native's reverse. Switching from forward to reverse hands free is much more usable then having to reach down and pull a cord every time you want to change directions. (As mentioned earlier, one of these cords broke on my first trip out.)
As also stated earlier, the Native drive is TOUGH. I have kept an extra prop and shear pin with me for 2 years and have never once had to change a prop. I have put my drive through hell, dragging along oyster bottoms, hitting stumps full speed ahead, it has yet to fail on me yet. The mirage drive on the other hand, gets bent masts fairly frequently. This isn't too hard to fix, but they can be bent to a point where the drive is unusable leaving you performing repairs on the water or having to paddle back in.
Native Slayer Propel 13
- Hands free reverse
- EXCELLENT Customer Service
- Propel drive is very tough, never failed me
- The boat is covered in gear tracks, easy no-drill customization.
- The boat has more ON hull storage and less IN hull storage.
- The propel drive hates grass, Delacroix in the summertime is a bitch.
- The propel drive drafts a few more inches of water in order to function.
- The rudder is not retractable so more care needs to be taken when loading/unloading.
- I find the plastic Native uses is tougher, seems you can almost scratch the Hobie plastic with your finger nail.
- Better stand and sight cast platform, the standing area is larger, flatter, and allows you to get a wider stance with your feet for better balance.
- More Stable.
- Propel drive is more maintenance than the mirage drive, requires specialized tools to access gears and grease occasionally. These tools and grease kit will run you probably $50-75.
- Propel drive creates a little more noise underway. It also has a little more resistance when pedaling if not freshly lubricated.
- Native Propel 13 does not have built in recessed fish finder transducer mount or pre-installed weather proof fittings for wiring.
- Overall kayak weight is heavier than the Outback for loading, unloading, launching purposes.
Hobie Outback Mirage
- Have to pull a cord to switch from forward to reverse, hard to tell which direction you are even heading until you start pedaling to figure it out.
- No experience with their customer service to vouch
- Mirage drive masts are very easy to bend, sometimes bend to unusable. Easy to straighten minor bends, but the more you bend them, the easier they bend the next time you hit something. Eventually will need to replace them at $20.00 a pop.
- No mounting options, just about have to drill for any customization.
- The boat has more IN hull storage and less ON hull storage.
- The mirage drive performs much better in grass.
- The mirage drive can operate in shallower water, many Hobie guys harp on this but I honestly haven’t noticed very much difference to be worth arguing.
- The rudder is retractable for shallow water and launching. The Outback has better turning radius hands down.
- Hobie Outback will allow you to stand and fish, but not nearly as comfortable as standing in the Native Propel
- If you have to pull the rudder/drive for some reason and need to paddle, the tracking of this kayak is absolutely horrible in my opinion.
- More stable than some kayaks, not as stable as Native Propel 13.
- The Mirage drive is practically maintenance free with the exception to bent masts occasionally.
- The Mirage drive is smooth, quiet, and weighs less.
- The Outback overall is lighter weight, easier to handle with one person.
- The Outback comes “pre-rigged” whereas the Native is more of a blank canvas. The Outback has built in paddle holders on both sides of the boat and comes with a paddle when you purchase. The Outback has a recessed transducer mount in the hull so the transducer is protected. It has weather proof fittings pre-installed for routing wiring.
- I would venture to say that a Hobie Outback with Turbo Fins is slightly faster than a Native Propel 13...either that or I just pack too much shite with me lol
As stated, I've owned both a Native Propel 13 and a Hobie Outback for 2 years now. I recently upgraded both of them to the newest models.
Both are great, well-built kayaks, in a similar price range. They both have their pros and cons, and each has their own specific applications which they excel in. It really all comes down to personal preference and demoing both to make a decision on which one fits your style best.
With that being said, the ONLY reason I still have a Hobie Outback is because my wife prefers it and finds she can handle it better by herself, the drive is lighter weight for her to take in and out, etc. If she didn't like it, I wouldn't have it.
Although the reverse on the mirage drive is a nice added feature, it still cannot compete with Native's reverse. Switching from forward to reverse hands free is much more usable then having to reach down and pull a cord every time you want to change directions. (As mentioned earlier, one of these cords broke on my first trip out.)
As also stated earlier, the Native drive is TOUGH. I have kept an extra prop and shear pin with me for 2 years and have never once had to change a prop. I have put my drive through hell, dragging along oyster bottoms, hitting stumps full speed ahead, it has yet to fail on me yet. The mirage drive on the other hand, gets bent masts fairly frequently. This isn't too hard to fix, but they can be bent to a point where the drive is unusable leaving you performing repairs on the water or having to paddle back in.
Native Slayer Propel 13
- Hands free reverse
- EXCELLENT Customer Service
- Propel drive is very tough, never failed me
- The boat is covered in gear tracks, easy no-drill customization.
- The boat has more ON hull storage and less IN hull storage.
- The propel drive hates grass, Delacroix in the summertime is a bitch.
- The propel drive drafts a few more inches of water in order to function.
- The rudder is not retractable so more care needs to be taken when loading/unloading.
- I find the plastic Native uses is tougher, seems you can almost scratch the Hobie plastic with your finger nail.
- Better stand and sight cast platform, the standing area is larger, flatter, and allows you to get a wider stance with your feet for better balance.
- More Stable.
- Propel drive is more maintenance than the mirage drive, requires specialized tools to access gears and grease occasionally. These tools and grease kit will run you probably $50-75.
- Propel drive creates a little more noise underway. It also has a little more resistance when pedaling if not freshly lubricated.
- Native Propel 13 does not have built in recessed fish finder transducer mount or pre-installed weather proof fittings for wiring.
- Overall kayak weight is heavier than the Outback for loading, unloading, launching purposes.
Hobie Outback Mirage
- Have to pull a cord to switch from forward to reverse, hard to tell which direction you are even heading until you start pedaling to figure it out.
- No experience with their customer service to vouch
- Mirage drive masts are very easy to bend, sometimes bend to unusable. Easy to straighten minor bends, but the more you bend them, the easier they bend the next time you hit something. Eventually will need to replace them at $20.00 a pop.
- No mounting options, just about have to drill for any customization.
- The boat has more IN hull storage and less ON hull storage.
- The mirage drive performs much better in grass.
- The mirage drive can operate in shallower water, many Hobie guys harp on this but I honestly haven’t noticed very much difference to be worth arguing.
- The rudder is retractable for shallow water and launching. The Outback has better turning radius hands down.
- Hobie Outback will allow you to stand and fish, but not nearly as comfortable as standing in the Native Propel
- If you have to pull the rudder/drive for some reason and need to paddle, the tracking of this kayak is absolutely horrible in my opinion.
- More stable than some kayaks, not as stable as Native Propel 13.
- The Mirage drive is practically maintenance free with the exception to bent masts occasionally.
- The Mirage drive is smooth, quiet, and weighs less.
- The Outback overall is lighter weight, easier to handle with one person.
- The Outback comes “pre-rigged” whereas the Native is more of a blank canvas. The Outback has built in paddle holders on both sides of the boat and comes with a paddle when you purchase. The Outback has a recessed transducer mount in the hull so the transducer is protected. It has weather proof fittings pre-installed for routing wiring.
- I would venture to say that a Hobie Outback with Turbo Fins is slightly faster than a Native Propel 13...either that or I just pack too much shite with me lol
This post was edited on 2/21/17 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 2/21/17 at 12:51 pm to Mark Makers
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