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re: EngineLabs LS vs Coyote
Posted on 6/22/16 at 9:18 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 6/22/16 at 9:18 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
The impression I got was that you could vary the length of the lifter continuously to basically modify the cam's profile. Looks like they just have VVT via timing chain phasers though.
Koenigsegg owner is developing a camless motor that uses electronic lifters. It's pretty awesome, can press a button to change the tune and run variable cam profiles, etc.
1
Posted on 6/22/16 at 9:25 am to jordan21210
Yea that's different. It's basically just a solenoid actuated valve. Tough to do on a car because it takes plenty of electrical power.
We've been having solenoid driven injectors on diesels and that alone is difficult to manage because of the power requirements. The valves work the same way (you're just pushing a valve stem instead of pulling a poppet), but it takes even more power than the injector drivers because of the forces involved and the amount of valves. It requires really big ECMs and lots of electricity.
We've been having solenoid driven injectors on diesels and that alone is difficult to manage because of the power requirements. The valves work the same way (you're just pushing a valve stem instead of pulling a poppet), but it takes even more power than the injector drivers because of the forces involved and the amount of valves. It requires really big ECMs and lots of electricity.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 9:28 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Are the coyote 5.0's direct injected or port injected?
What fuel rail pressures do they run at?
What fuel rail pressures do they run at?
Posted on 6/22/16 at 9:46 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:port
Are the coyote 5.0's direct injected or port injected?
quote:
What fuel rail pressures do they run at?
around 55
Posted on 6/22/16 at 9:50 am to meauxjeaux2
Was the engine designed to be adaptable to direct injections?
IMO, that's the next step. Swap to direct injection and some really high compression ratios. The engines will get reallll torquey when that happens.
IMO, that's the next step. Swap to direct injection and some really high compression ratios. The engines will get reallll torquey when that happens.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 9:52 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
i don't believe it was
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:25 am to meauxjeaux2
quote:
Love the Hennessey Venom GT. But let's not pretend that Ford doesn't or hasn't offered a bad arse tuner vehicle or two.
The S7 Twin Turbo was the first one I thought of actually. And the Ford GT is just an absolute monster. That smaller V8 from the Terminator Cobra (the 4.6 version based on the 5.4 in the GT) was one hell of an engine. Very underrated from the factory.
The main point I was trying to make is that the LSx is a very capable power plant, requires less space to do it, and weighs a lot less. The whole displacement argument really is irrelevant since dimensionally the LS is a smaller motor. But I won't doubt the capabilities of Ford engineers with Ford motors. They can deliver some monstrous power, as you illustrated.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:30 am to bapple
i have heard that some versions of the LS are near %100 volumetric efficiency. 
Posted on 6/22/16 at 11:10 am to bapple
quote:
[LSx]weighs a lot less
I believe the aluminum LS3 only weighs about 20lbs less, so the iron lsx would probably weigh more
420 vs 440 (sans accessories)
quote:
The whole displacement argument really is irrelevant since dimensionally the LS is a smaller motor
Not really since you can come up with a higher displacement mod motor than the 5.0 that is the same exterior size of the coyote and blow away the 6.2 LS3.
This was a power shootout and the compared an engine with a lot more displacement and I hate to be cliche, but there is no replacement for displacement. it is how the LS is making more power
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 11:11 am
Posted on 6/22/16 at 11:15 am to meauxjeaux2
quote:
i have heard that some versions of the LS are near %100 volumetric efficiency.
Engines have exceeded 100% VE for decades.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:11 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
Not really since you can come up with a higher displacement mod motor than the 5.0 that is the same exterior size of the coyote and blow away the 6.2 LS3.
But the LS motor is still smaller dimensionally. That's exactly what I'm saying.
quote:
This was a power shootout and the compared an engine with a lot more displacement and I hate to be cliche, but there is no replacement for displacement. it is how the LS is making more power
They had a budget limit. It just costs more to build a Ford motor than an LS since the aftermarket for the LS is so much larger.
But, with equal displacement, a 4V motor would easily outdo a 2V. At what cost though?
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:20 pm to bapple
The ford is a more complex engine and will always cost more to build than an LS and be physically larger than an LS regardless of what the aftermarket does. There's no changing that.
They're really tough to compare. They're V8 gas burners and the similarities really don't go far beyond that.
They're really tough to compare. They're V8 gas burners and the similarities really don't go far beyond that.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 12:25 pm to bapple
quote:
They had a budget limit. It just costs more to build a Ford motor than an LS since the aftermarket for the LS is so much larger.
They also artificially rev limited the Coyote in that test. And no, the aftermarket for the Ford Mod motors is at least equal. The only parts available for the LS engines that the Mod motors don't typically get are heads and engine blocks but since they can make 2,000+ hp on factory castings there's no reasons for aftermarket supplied versions either. The Mustang has more aftermarket support than the Camaro does period too.
quote:
But, with equal displacement, a 4V motor would easily outdo a 2V. At what cost though?
Really depends on how much power one wants to make. The LSx is going to hit a wall before the Mod motor does, at which point the cost of custom parts will make the LSx more expensive. The LSx's used to have a practically insurmountable advantage in making power naturally aspirated but with the latest Mod motors, making a 600+ hp N/A Coyote isn't any more difficult now than ordering off-the-shelf parts and dyno tuning.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:07 pm to Clames
quote:NA?
Engines have exceeded 100% VE for decades.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:20 pm to meauxjeaux2
Yes. I have a book written in the 1920's that discusses that very concept with respect to valve port designs.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 2:21 pm to Clames
quote:
They also artificially rev limited the Coyote in that test.
I noticed that too. When they showed the power curve, it continued to climb past 7000 rpm.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 7:17 pm to kywildcatfanone
Great thread.
I don't know what homos d/v you. Probably some jelly Tesla owners.
I don't know what homos d/v you. Probably some jelly Tesla owners.
Posted on 6/23/16 at 6:49 am to SportTiger1
quote:
But nonetheless, 740go should be fun from the factory.
Agreed. I just hope they don't do something stupid l like the last GT500 where it made over 660hp and they put tiny tires on the rear.
I think with the GT350 upping Ford's expectations we'll see a significant leap with the GT500.
Posted on 6/23/16 at 11:16 am to kywildcatfanone
I wish chicken would add a car talk board... Wood love to be able to read more discussions like this without the usual OT idiocy.
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