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Started By
Message
re: Would you support criminalizing homelessness?
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:11 am to Breesus
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:11 am to Breesus
quote:
They can both kill you quickly. Death is pretty dangerous.
By that line of thinking everything is "dangerous". You can even overdose on water and die from it. I'm sorry but to compare heroin to Advil (or even whiskey) insofar as their level of danger is concerned is just absurd.
If we're being honest with ourselves here, i am quite certain you are just being a contrarian on this point.
This post was edited on 6/17/14 at 9:13 am
1
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:13 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
So let's clear the air here. Do you support criminalizing being homeless? Yes or no?
Choosing a one of two sides without a thorough discussion of each is an exercise in ignorance.
quote:
But if you take a "one size fits all" approach to homelessness then while on the one hand you do scoop up those who are just lazy, you'll also be punishing those have no control over their own fate.
Agreed. You said anyone could quickly become homeless. I said any homeless could quickly become not homeless. I merely suggested the opposite hypothesis.
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:14 am to PhiTiger1764
quote:
I'm ok with someone 18 doing these things.
Why 18? Because the government tells you thats ok?
Why not 12? or 35?
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:15 am to Breesus
quote:
prison work camps
For real?
Maybe name it Dachau .
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:17 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
You can even overdose on water and die from it.
Some would argue the government should ration your water for you so this doesnt happen.
quote:
. I'm sorry but to compare heroin to Advil (or even whiskey) insofar as their level of danger is concerned is just absurd.
Why? Plenty of crimes and deaths and ruined lives come from an excess of alcohol.
Remember this came from the discussion of individual rights.
Why are you ok with someone going to the store and buying 5 gallons of whiskey then driving around or dying of alcohol poisoning, but not ok with their ability to go buy some heroin?
Why is ok that drug addicts have to deal with drug dealers and crime to fuel their addictions and alcoholics can walk into walgreens and buy it without the slightest complaint from anyone?
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:18 am to Breesus
quote:
Why 18? Because the government tells you thats ok?
Seems like a good age to me. Generally speaking this is the age people are when they finish high school and leave their parents' nest. So yea if I had to pick an age that would be it.
And only one of those three things does the government say is ok at 18 so I don't know what you're getting at.
This post was edited on 6/17/14 at 9:21 am
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:19 am to Breesus
quote:
Choosing a one of two sides without a thorough discussion of each is an exercise in ignorance.
You're dodging the question. Everyone else in this thread has stated their opinion pro or con. Are you calling everyone else in here ignorant?
quote:
Agreed. You said anyone could quickly become homeless. I said any homeless could quickly become not homeless. I merely suggested the opposite hypothesis.
For many being homeless is indeed temporary and only lasts a short while. But for others it lasts months or even years. And while those who find themselves homeless for a short while are usually just folks "down on their luck", those who are chronically homeless have far higher instances of mental issues, hardcore drug addictions, or both.
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:19 am to Breesus
quote:Then perhaps you should read more books, start with Two Treatises of Government by John Locke. And yes drugs should be legal. Alochol is a drug and it is legal. why not others?
The purpose of having laws is to protect individual rights. I dont agree
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:20 am to Breesus
Jail would be an upgrade for most.
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:28 am to CaptainBrannigan
quote:
Then perhaps you should read more books, start with Two Treatises of Government by John Locke. And yes drugs should be legal. Alochol is a drug and it is legal. why not others?
Perhaps you should read more. That is one possibility of the necessity of laws, however it is not the only theory in existence. You should read Holmes and Hart or Maybe Plato's Republic.
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:34 am to Breesus
Status crimes are unconstitutional...homelessness is a status
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:34 am to Breesus
You're probably just playing devil's advocate here, but here is why I do not support it:
1) Most importantly, being homeless in and of itself is not a crime. What you and someone else consider a home are two different things.
2) Being homeless can happen to anyone. Maybe you have family members who would be persistent enough to take care of you if you developed mental illness, but not everyone does.
3) Homeless people are already humiliated enough, why make them criminals?
4) You can't prove whether someone is technically homeless or not. Some guy could be crashing on his buddy's couch once a week.
You make references in your posts to homeless people being crackheads, or demanding money from people. These activities should be and are criminalized. So that should take care of those people for you. Why ask for the very act of not having a home to be a crime?
1) Most importantly, being homeless in and of itself is not a crime. What you and someone else consider a home are two different things.
2) Being homeless can happen to anyone. Maybe you have family members who would be persistent enough to take care of you if you developed mental illness, but not everyone does.
3) Homeless people are already humiliated enough, why make them criminals?
4) You can't prove whether someone is technically homeless or not. Some guy could be crashing on his buddy's couch once a week.
You make references in your posts to homeless people being crackheads, or demanding money from people. These activities should be and are criminalized. So that should take care of those people for you. Why ask for the very act of not having a home to be a crime?
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:34 am to Breesus
quote:
Some would argue the government should ration your water for you so this doesnt happen.
Please point to the people who are calling for the government to ration our water to prevent us from overdosing and killing ourselves with it. I'd like to know who these people are.
quote:
Why? Plenty of crimes and deaths and ruined lives come from an excess of alcohol.
Remember this came from the discussion of individual rights.
Why are you ok with someone going to the store and buying 5 gallons of whiskey then driving around or dying of alcohol poisoning, but not ok with their ability to go buy some heroin?
Why is ok that drug addicts have to deal with drug dealers and crime to fuel their addictions and alcoholics can walk into walgreens and buy it without the slightest complaint from anyone?
Because there is an acceptable level of consumption of things like Advil or whiskey that a responsible adult can consume without harming themselves or others. There is no safe level of consumption for heroin.
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:36 am to blackmouth
quote:
Status crimes are unconstitutional...homelessness is a status
That's why I qualified it with behaviors.
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:39 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Please point to the people who are calling for the government to ration our water to prevent us from overdosing and killing ourselves with it. I'd like to know who these people are.
It is the logical conclusion of a liberal government regulation argument
quote:
There is no safe level of consumption for heroin.
You sure about that? How can you prove it?
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:40 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Please point to the people who are calling for the government to ration our water to prevent us from overdosing and killing ourselves with it. I'd like to know who these people are.
the town I live in rations our water, has for years, and they will fine you for using too much
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:41 am to Breesus
How would they pay fines? We would be using resources on them trying to incriminate people with no money. do you even BRPD, bro?
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:42 am to 777Tiger
quote:
the town I live in rations our water, has for years, and they will fine you for using too much
Because there's a shortage or because you might overdose and die?
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:42 am to Breesus
see the US Sup Ct case involving loitering (behavior) in Chicago.
The Court said City Ordinances regulating loitering, ie behavior, regardless of whether the Ordinances target gangs or homeless or XYZ activities, are void for vagueness because they do not put an individual on notice as to the proscribed behavior.
The Case is Morales v. Chicago I believe
The Court said City Ordinances regulating loitering, ie behavior, regardless of whether the Ordinances target gangs or homeless or XYZ activities, are void for vagueness because they do not put an individual on notice as to the proscribed behavior.
The Case is Morales v. Chicago I believe
This post was edited on 6/17/14 at 9:43 am
Posted on 6/17/14 at 9:43 am to 777Tiger
quote:
the town I live in rations our water, has for years, and they will fine you for using too much
Understand but are they making the argument that this rationing is to keep you from overdosing and killing yourself on water?
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