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Why don't we hear more about the Russians helping to end WWII in the Pacific?
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:06 pm
I feel that most of the teachings on the war in the pacific and even discussions on this board tend to gloss over the Russians contribution to ending the war in the Pacific. I know the russians joined the fight against Japan late in the game, but it could be argued that their joining in the fight had just as much to do with ending the war in the pacific as the U.S. dropping the 2 atomic bombs.
I just read about the Russians sweeping invasion on Japanese occupied China (Manchuria) on the same day as the dropping of the 2nd atomic bomb, Aug 9, 1945. What do the OT historians think about the idea that without the Russians helping out in the Pacific, the war doesn't come to as abrupt end, possibly dragging on for months or even years? or possibly forcing us to use more Atomic bombs?
I just read about the Russians sweeping invasion on Japanese occupied China (Manchuria) on the same day as the dropping of the 2nd atomic bomb, Aug 9, 1945. What do the OT historians think about the idea that without the Russians helping out in the Pacific, the war doesn't come to as abrupt end, possibly dragging on for months or even years? or possibly forcing us to use more Atomic bombs?
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Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:08 pm to Emteein
It's a weird geopolitical question.
They did nothing to end the Pacific War except exist. They launched their offensive the same day as Fat Man (as you indicated).
But, one of the factors we considered in ending the war with the bombs (rather than firebombing until September/October) was to cut off Soviet justification for incursions into the China and Japanese spheres of influence.
They did nothing to end the Pacific War except exist. They launched their offensive the same day as Fat Man (as you indicated).
But, one of the factors we considered in ending the war with the bombs (rather than firebombing until September/October) was to cut off Soviet justification for incursions into the China and Japanese spheres of influence.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:08 pm to Emteein
Could it be theorized that their getting involved prompted us to drop the nukes so that we wouldn't have to split the victory on the mainland with Russia like we did Europe?
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:08 pm to Emteein
quote:
without the Russians helping out in the Pacific, the war doesn't come to as abrupt end
Except it would have without the Russian invasion.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:10 pm to Emteein
Because the Russians did almost nothing.
We destroyed the Jap Navy.
We took back the islands in the Pacific
We bombed their homeland
We mounted the greatest submarine warfare ever seen in the Pacific
WE DID THE WORK, not the revisionist history your are learning.
If anyone else deserves credit you can see the Aussies and Brits for that.
ETA: Lets also remember we fought around the entire globe, with oceans between our capital and the battlefields. We supplied the allies, we carried the damn thing. The russians served as a meat grinder, thats about it.
We destroyed the Jap Navy.
We took back the islands in the Pacific
We bombed their homeland
We mounted the greatest submarine warfare ever seen in the Pacific
WE DID THE WORK, not the revisionist history your are learning.
If anyone else deserves credit you can see the Aussies and Brits for that.
ETA: Lets also remember we fought around the entire globe, with oceans between our capital and the battlefields. We supplied the allies, we carried the damn thing. The russians served as a meat grinder, thats about it.
This post was edited on 5/31/16 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:10 pm to Emteein
The Japanese were preparing to be invaded. The Russian successes extremely late in the war meant very little. The Japanese were preparing to fall on their swords en masse to protect the home island.
Until the second bomb was dropped did they see the wisdom of surrender. I don't think Russia finally going on the offensive in the East played much if any role in their thinking.
Until the second bomb was dropped did they see the wisdom of surrender. I don't think Russia finally going on the offensive in the East played much if any role in their thinking.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:12 pm to Emteein
Yeah I read what the writer said about that. Essentially giving credit to the Russians and not the atomic bomb dropped on their heads.
The guy was obviously desperate to come up with an article the was controversial to stir up publicity. Anyone that thinks that the a bombs didnt turn the japs off to war is not worthy of writing articles.
The guy was obviously desperate to come up with an article the was controversial to stir up publicity. Anyone that thinks that the a bombs didnt turn the japs off to war is not worthy of writing articles.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:13 pm to Emteein
Because they didn't do jack shite to Japan
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:17 pm to Emteein
quote:
I just read about the Russians sweeping invasion on Japanese occupied China (Manchuria) on the same day as the dropping of the 2nd atomic bomb, Aug 9, 1945. What do the OT historians think about the idea that without the Russians helping out in the Pacific, the war doesn't come to as abrupt end, possibly dragging on for months or even years? or possibly forcing us to use more Atomic bombs?
Why do you think they attacked after the 2nd bomb? It was a power grab once they realized the war was all but over. The Japanese held little regard for the Russians attacking them. The war ended because the Emperor finally realized that all was lost and those hard liners around him were extensively neutralized in a failed coup. A coup that would have insulated the Emperor even more and neutered his public influence.
This was like the race to Berlin.. It was all about who got control in the region. They wanted the influence within Asia and led to present day China and geo-political conflicts within Southern Asia
This post was edited on 5/31/16 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:18 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
But, one of the factors we considered in ending the war with the bombs (rather than firebombing until September/October) was to cut off Soviet justification for incursions into the China and Japanese spheres of influence
This is the eight hundred pound gorilla in the room that people don't talk about. Probably influenced Truman's decision greatly.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:19 pm to Emteein
7/10
Best ever troll in the history of the History Board
Best ever troll in the history of the History Board
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:19 pm to Emteein
They didn't help at all. They didn't give two shits about manchuria, China nor Korea until we had Japan beat.
They declared war on Japan very late and while they did capture Manchuria, their efforts were more to spread communism than to liberate.
In fact had we gone ahead with the invasion of Japan and Russian been given the green light to invade Hokkaido while we invaded Honshu and Kyushu, we probably would have had a Japanese war like we had a Korean and Vietnam war.
Hell the nukes saved Japan from going partially red for sure.
In hindsight, we should have listened to Patton and took out Russia while they were weak.
They declared war on Japan very late and while they did capture Manchuria, their efforts were more to spread communism than to liberate.
In fact had we gone ahead with the invasion of Japan and Russian been given the green light to invade Hokkaido while we invaded Honshu and Kyushu, we probably would have had a Japanese war like we had a Korean and Vietnam war.
Hell the nukes saved Japan from going partially red for sure.
In hindsight, we should have listened to Patton and took out Russia while they were weak.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:21 pm to Napoleon
quote:
In hindsight, we should have listened to Patton and took out Russia while they were weak.
Probably, but would the space race ever happened had we done so?
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:21 pm to Napoleon
quote:
In hindsight, we should have listened to Patton and took out Russia while they were weak.
To be fair, the 3rd Army would have had trouble with 300-something divisions the Red Army had at the time.
We had an army, and they had an army. We would have hit the same buzzsaw that chewed up the finest divisions of the Wermacht and Waffen SS. Just to keep things completely in perspective.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:25 pm to Ace Midnight
Russia would never have been able to prosecute the war without shipments of raw materials from the US. We would've kicked their arse
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:26 pm to bencoleman
quote:sounds like they're from New Orleans
Russia would never have been able to prosecute
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:27 pm to bencoleman
quote:
Russia would never have been able to prosecute the war without shipments of raw materials from the US. We would've kicked their arse
I think both sides were too tired to do much more than bluff - but the Russians did have a lot of troops under arms. They had rebuilt their industry. They would have been a handful (unless we were willing to go nuclear before they got their weapon completed.)
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:34 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
We had an army, and they had an army. We would have hit the same buzzsaw that chewed up the finest divisions of the Wermacht and Waffen SS. Just to keep things completely in perspective.
And we had the bomb, the materiel and a completely intact country. Don't forget, superior air power as well. We had large forces stationed on either side of Russia and were a major supplier to their war effort.
Politically, war with Russia was a non starter though.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:38 pm to Emteein
Because frick Russia, that's why.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:40 pm to Emteein
quote:Five days before Japan surrendered is definitely "late in the game."
I know the russians joined the fight against Japan late in the game
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