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re: (Not Common Core)-- Why are they teaching math this way?
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:40 pm to Bleeding purple
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:40 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
I have never in my entirety of 20+ years of education been asked to "find the subtrahend"
Minor in math
plus
3 years of Latin
This thread was the first time I have seen that term used.
3
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:41 pm to brgfather129
quote:
That's great...it is elementary level math vocabulary and certainly nothing new. What's next, "I've never heard of dividend, divisor, quotient"?
Hey I have heard all those terms
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:43 pm to Catman88
quote:
This thread was the first time I have seen that term used.
It has been used in mathematics for 350 years.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:44 pm to Pintail
I never said that the mathematical principles behind doesn't make sense to those practiced in it. I was expressing frustration towards the fact that the people are so eager to "make a difference" they fail to fully appreciate the consequences, intended or otherwise
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:46 pm to igoringa
quote:
Were they ever asked to solve a problem using their 'double facts'? If so how did they do that? Not arguing, just curious
Maybe...I honestly don't recall it specifically with the second grader. Though...if you put a gun to my head, I'd say I think I first heard that term (doubles plus) with my now 7th grader, and that would have been long before they were doing CC. In fact, I've tried getting my second grader to answer questions like that using doubles, and he looks at me like I'm insane...and then I have to explain it.
quote:
How is that not memorization? Again just curious.
Call it semantics I guess, but I don't equate knowing how to count by 5's or 10's as the same level of memorization as I would memorizing the 9's multiplication tables for instance.
You guys are going to break my brain with this much math...seriously...frick you guys! I'm having math class flashbacks... The first one of you jackasses that calls me to the board to solve some equation is going to get kicked in the balls.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:48 pm to DrunkerThanThou
I think again a common issue is that common core itself is just not being implemented correctly.
For example, ultimate memorization (the point I have argued is lacking) is a requirement of common core. For example, 2nd grade:
CCSS.Math.Content.2.OA.B.2
Fluently add and subtract within 20 using mental strategies.2 By end of Grade 2, know from memory all sums of two one-digit numbers.
Where I differ is I think that should be handled a year earlier.
For example, ultimate memorization (the point I have argued is lacking) is a requirement of common core. For example, 2nd grade:
CCSS.Math.Content.2.OA.B.2
Fluently add and subtract within 20 using mental strategies.2 By end of Grade 2, know from memory all sums of two one-digit numbers.
Where I differ is I think that should be handled a year earlier.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:49 pm to Catman88
I'm with you. Math minor. Never heard of either term until today.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:50 pm to brgfather129
quote:
It has been used in mathematics for 350 years.
Well I guess I am just an ultracrepidarian bowing to the snollygosters while fudgeling all day long due to a serious case of ergophobia.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:52 pm to ell_13
quote:
I'm with you. Math minor. Never heard of either term until today.
Shhhhh, Mr. Math will laugh at you.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:53 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Maybe...I honestly don't recall it specifically with the second grader.
LINK
this is not my kids school, but this is pretty much the same. introduces double facts in second grade to allow use of double plus 1 strategy.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:56 pm to High C
That's fine. I'm not saying it's something they shouldn't learn. I'm all for extending vocabularies. But let's not pretend they are or were ever well-known terms.
This post was edited on 2/9/15 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:57 pm to brgfather129
quote:
It has been used in mathematics for 350 years.
Yes, but it is not even close to common vernacular in this country. Do you not honestly see why this would confuse parents?
BTW I am a math minor and I did hear this term in Theoretical (I think my Junior year), I had to go look it up! This was before Google.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 1:59 pm to igoringa
quote:
introduces double facts in second grade to allow use of double plus 1 strategy.
Like I said...the more I think about it the more I do not recall my second grader being asked about doubles. I'm almost certain that's a concept I have been bringing to the table based on my having worked with my now 7th grader when he was younger. And if that's the case, it wasn't because of CC, because he was not doing that then.
I really like the doubles line of thinking to be honest...makes sense to me.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 2:01 pm to volnavy
quote:
Yes, but it is not even close to common vernacular in this country. Do you not honestly see why this would confuse parents?
Unless the teacher didn't teach the kids the word subtrahend before asking to find it, I see no problem with the parent not knowing what it is. The teacher isn't teaching the parent.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 2:02 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
I really like the doubles line of thinking to be honest...makes sense to me.
Whatever works
Again, I like the kids being taught strategies, as long as the objective and result is balanced. I get frustrated a little with the simplistic questions (where my kids know the answer from reading it), but are forced to show the response 'two ways'. That is just time wasting if they have the concept.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 2:06 pm to volnavy
quote:
Yes, but it is not even close to common vernacular in this country
bullshite...to argue otherwise is ridiculous. Unless, of course, you want us to believe that people have been teaching subtraction like "take this number here, and subtract this number" for the last century without using vocabulary.
quote:
Do you not honestly see why this would confuse parents?
If parents are confused by the word subtrahend, they need to hire a tutor.
Posted on 2/9/15 at 2:08 pm to taylork37
quote:
Unless the teacher didn't teach the kids the word subtrahend before asking to find it, I see no problem with the parent not knowing what it is. The teacher isn't teaching the parent.
Except when you are assisting your child with homework and the two of you are not speaking the same language.
I have no problem changing it up, but my child had no idea what subtract, take away, or minus meant.
Interesting to note, no where on my child's math book or homework does the word Subtrahend or addend show up in writing. So how am I supposed to know she is being taught the new words instead of the old?
Posted on 2/9/15 at 2:12 pm to brgfather129
quote:
bullshite...to argue otherwise is ridiculous
Really? Because several posters including 3 math minors all noted they did not know the word or see it used in testing.
quote:
If parents are confused by the word subtrahend, they need to hire a tutor
Wow, true colors showing there.
Let it all out.
Only licensed teachers with access to teachers.net and other free lessons plans should be educating young minds.
edited for typos
This post was edited on 2/9/15 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 2/9/15 at 2:13 pm to brgfather129
quote:
Unless, of course, you want us to believe that people have been teaching subtraction like "take this number here, and subtract this number" for the last century
That's exactly how it has been taught for the last century.
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