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Message
re: Idaho family buries transgender woman as a man
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:47 pm to member12
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:47 pm to member12
quote:
Perhaps the family, who is likely paying for the service, simply remembers their son as a boy and want to reflect on the good times they had together.
Unless the deceased wanted to be buried a certain way, it's really not anyone's place to judge.
I think it's safe to say that the deceased wouldn't have wanted to be buried with her gender switched to a male anymore than you would want to have your gender switched to a female when you die. What if, upon your death, your mom decided she really wanted to have a girl so she decides to stick a wig on you in the casket?
They can reflect on the good times with their son without doing what they did.
I think it's an insult to this person's memory. A funeral is supposed to be to mourn or celebrate someone's life. When you do something like this, you're not mourning or celebrating that person's life, you're just making that person into what you wanted them to be instead.
I'm not really spiritual or religious, but I do feel one thing.... you don't frick with the dead.
0
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:48 pm to Dr RC
quote:
its not honoring a persons memory to completely deny who they were in life.
The people paying for the funeral service apparently remember her as a boy.
The funeral is for them, not for the dead. We can speculate on the wishes of the deceased, but this is a family matter and none of us should judge a family mourning the loss of a young person like that.
This is how they honor their memory of the person they raised, because this is how they remember him.
This post was edited on 11/24/14 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:48 pm to UL-SabanRival
His grandparents raised him. Baby boomers still have a difficult time accepting LGBT. I don't think grandparents born in the 30's-40's could easily accept his gender reassignment, and per the article, they hardly knew him as Jennifer.
This was their memory of him. The boy they raised through childhood into adulthood. 5-10 years of gender reassignment does not undo the memories of the previous 30 years.
IMO, this was not malice, this was not a referendum on Jennifer, but them simply honoring what he was before becoming Jennifer; what they knew him as.
This was their memory of him. The boy they raised through childhood into adulthood. 5-10 years of gender reassignment does not undo the memories of the previous 30 years.
IMO, this was not malice, this was not a referendum on Jennifer, but them simply honoring what he was before becoming Jennifer; what they knew him as.
This post was edited on 11/24/14 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:48 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
transgenderism is just something I can't wrap my mind around.
Its a hard situation for a family, I imagine, and I won't throw many stones at them, even though it probably could have been handled better.
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:50 pm to MSMHater
quote:
No problem with this.
His parents and family can have a funeral and remember him as they see fit. The funeral is for the family anyway, not the deceased
Totally agree. Not to mention that it's none of our business.
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:51 pm to Master of Sinanju
quote:
Its a hard situation for a family, I imagine, and I won't throw many stones at them, even though it probably could have been handled better.
Agreed
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:51 pm to Dr RC
quote:
its not honoring a persons memory to completely deny who they were in life.
So who they were before reassignment just becomes irrelevent? Vacations, school, family holidays, etc.. Why "deny" those memories? Are they less meaningful?
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:52 pm to arseinclarse
As a father, I would hate to do something so permanent and regret it later. Sure, they probably didn't know "Jennifer", but maybe they should have gotten to know her better.
If down the road I was exposed to how my son struggled with gender identity and knew the inner torment he faced every single day, I would be ashamed that I buried him as "Geoffrey" instead of "Jennifer".
If down the road I was exposed to how my son struggled with gender identity and knew the inner torment he faced every single day, I would be ashamed that I buried him as "Geoffrey" instead of "Jennifer".
Posted on 11/24/14 at 3:59 pm to MSMHater
quote:
So who they were before reassignment just becomes irrelevent? Vacations, school, family holidays, etc.. Why "deny" those memories? Are they less meaningful?
So let's say a woman dies at 50 years old and her parents have to have to bury her.
Her parents' best memories of this woman's life were of her childhood, when they were raising her.
So they put her in a poodle skirt, put her hair in pigtails, and bury her with teddy bears, barbies, and cabbage patch dolls.
That's cool to you?
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:14 pm to arseinclarse
having one of those as a kid would suck so bad
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:14 pm to arseinclarse
Watching parents try to win an argument with their dead child is awesome, and totally not selfish at all
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:15 pm to efrad
quote:
So let's say a woman dies at 50 years old and her parents have to have to bury her. Her parents' best memories of this woman's life were of her childhood, when they were raising her. So they put her in a poodle skirt, put her hair in pigtails, and bury her with teddy bears, barbies, and cabbage patch dolls. That's cool to you?
Nice strawman.
How about this? My dad drank himself to death as an athiest, alcoholic living a pretty miserable life with hardly any friends and only his sons and parents to talk to. It's who he was and I loved him anyway.
I cremated him and spread his ashes on Lake Darbonne (sp?), without any "hoopla", as he wished me to do.
His parents (80+ years old and very religious) had a giant Christian memorial service in a church with 30-40 people who hadn't known him in 20+ years. They told stories of his younger years and the memories they had of him. Remembered him entrely as the man he was once, and not the man he died as. Such a ceremony was explicitly against his wishes.
Should I be pissed at them for honoring their memory of him, and not what he actually was? Death traditions are about closure for the living, and I'm ok with however you want to accomplish that.
My position is not about his gender reassignment. I completely support LGBT rights and equality, and would truly not care if my kids were in that group. But putting myself into the postions of his grandparents, and considering the era they are from, I understand why they did what they did, and I won't judge them for it. I'll let y'all do that. Let the downvotes rain down.
ETA: I know it's not equivilant to gender reassignment (but neither is your example), but it's related in it's how the family wanted to remember the deceased. They definitly should have gotten to know Jennifer, but I won't disparage them for seeking closure.
This post was edited on 11/24/14 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:25 pm to MSMHater
quote:
His parents (80+ years old and very religious) had a giant Christian memorial service in a church with 30-40 people who hadn't known him in 20+ years. They told stories of his younger years and the memories they had of him. Remembered him entrely as the man he was once, and not the man he died as. Such a ceremony was explicitly against his wishes.
I don't see how that equates, at all
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:27 pm to EmperorGout
quote:
I don't see how that equates, at all
30-40 people is a "giant...memorial service"?
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:28 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
30-40 people is a "giant...memorial service"?
In Farmerville it is.
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:32 pm to MSMHater
quote:
Nice strawman.
It's not a strawman. If, as you say, the family should be able to remember their child in any way they like, you should be able to grasp the point of my analogy. It's absurd, for sure, but it fits in with what you claimed earlier.
My analogy works because as you yourself said of your example, it's not related to gender reassignment but it's how the family wanted to remember the deceased.
quote:
Should I be pissed at them for honoring their memory of him, and not what he actually was? Death traditions are about closure for the living, and I'm ok with however you want to accomplish that.
In life, I can't stop people from throwing me a surprise party, but I sure as hell can control what people try to do with my body. In death, I think the same should apply.
This post was edited on 11/24/14 at 4:34 pm
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:32 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:
Posted by Blue Velvet They didn't love their kid for who they really were. Terrible parents. Spitting on his identity.
You're making a big assumption that this person "really was" a female. The idea that we get to decide our gender is radical.
This post was edited on 11/24/14 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:33 pm to MSMHater
quote:
quote:
30-40 people is a "giant...memorial service"?
In Farmerville it is.
Fair enough. I didn't realize that was your personal anecdote, and thought it was a reference from the OP scenario. Your point is valid, though, and I actually think it is analogous.
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:34 pm to efrad
quote:
but I sure as hell can control what people try to do with my body. In death, I think the same should apply.
Fair enough. I would never argue that point. Your wishes should be fulfilled.
quote:
My analogy works because as you yourself said of your example, it's not related to gender reassignment but it's how the family wanted to remember the deceased.
Point taken
This post was edited on 11/24/14 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 11/24/14 at 4:36 pm to uway
quote:
You're making a big assumption that this person "really was" a female. The idea that we get to decide our gender is radical.
Does it really matter in this situation? At the very least, a person should be able to do whatever the frick they want to do with their own body.
The person in question wanted to be presented to the world as a female. If you aren't going to respect that person, why even show up to the funeral?
All philosophy on LGBT issues aside, if you don't respect how that person wishes to present herself, why even go?
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