re: How badly did the women's lib movement ruin marriage for men?

We've got to MAGA.

Feminism, specifically 3rd wave Feminism ruined marriage for men

Any man who gets married today is an idiot. Men have to bear all the risks in the marriage.

Most women these days are slots. They party too hard in their teens and 20s and are damaged goods once they hit the wall and get into their upper 20s and 30s. Why should I man up and marry a slut again? I don't care if she is a born again virgin or "changed". Doesn't change the fact that she has seen more cocks than a urinal and is likely an alpha widow who won't respect any man except the most alpha one who banged her

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See my post above about not all women being like that.

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The term AWALT exists for a reason

Yes, all women are like that. Always.

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Unless you're ballin out of control I don't see why you would prefer less money 

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Just lol

I can make my own money.

Despite the fact that combining finances is beyond risky.

Brb losing half my shite because on some random morning the wife decided she wanted a divorce and is "no longer happy"

Ot lounge logic

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Approximately 50% of marriages end in divorce. Of those divorces, approximately 75% will be initiated by women.

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That's a pretty misleading statistic. It's more like 30% for first-time marriages, and when controlling for median income, education level, and ethnicity of (I would guess) most of this board, it's probably more like 10 to 15% for first-time marriages.

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Let's not go too far down the special snowflake not all women are like that attitude. Women are humans that respond to incentives. Current economic and social factors in the U.S. heavily incentivize women to divorce.

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I don't disagree with that at all, and I saw it first-hand in the Army all the time, but there are lots of obvious markers that are huge red flags to anyone with half a brain more often than not.

Always watch the parents. I have found that to be a tried and true method of predicting how a person's relationships will play out - it's obviously not 100% accurate and I am sure we both have examples of great people to date who are products of bad parental marriages and vice versa, but it will tend to play out that way much more often than not. If the mom and dad respect each other and treat other well even after decades of being together, odds are the girl probably has her head screwed on straight, too.

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frick marriage in terms of what it means today.

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Marriage is what you make it. I've known far too many guys growing up that married a hot piece of arse because they wanted a hot piece of arse later in life that aged well, but didn't care about the "substance" at 20.

shite happens and people change. And divorce happens to good people from time to time. But majority of the time the issue was they weren't really compatible to begin with because they settled without taking stock of what life would be like 10 years from now.

I read an article a while back and can't seem to find it now, but it truly applies here. It was much more verbose but got the point across.

In general, it was based on a girl asking the question: "Where are all of the good guys?".
The author's response was pretty spot-on. He said: "you can't cook, can't clean, have "wordly" tattoos and piercings, you've let yourself go, and you've rode the cock carousel all through your twenties and you want to know where the good guys are? They're dating good girls."

It also referenced a statistic that something along the lines of "if a guy makes it past 24 without getting married, he's got a 70% of being single through 35, and a 30% chance of never getting married". I can't even remember the exact percentages, let alone confirm if what he reported was correct, but it basically pointed to the fact that as men get older they begin to gain a better understanding of how drastically the deck has been stacked against us when it comes to modern marriage.


But it has always stuck with me because of the phrase "cock carousel"... That's a perfect description.


And save the argument about "If a girl sleeps around, she's a slut. If a guy sleeps around he's a pimp." I'm not saying that argument is appropriate, but it is the consensus of a lot of people. Accept it.

Here's the thing that ticks me off. If a couple get divorced and he has even a bit of money he has to pay alimony. The "reason" is she's become accustomed to that lifestyle. Well he became accustomed to her cooking/Cleaning why shouldn't she still have to provide that for him? Women often say if she hadn't been providing that in the marriage he wouldn't have had the ability to focus on his career. Well then if she's no longer doing that after divorce how can the court determine he'll be able to make the same amount.

I don't think there's anything wrong with equal rights or egalitarianism. What gets to be pretty untenable is when you combine saying you believe in equality with expecting different treatments for different genders.

Some of the second wave feminists really understood and embraced this, but they have been delegitimized by third wave feminists who want the best parts of chauvanism (for example, unequal treatment in courts - both civil and criminal) to exist side by side with the best parts of equality.

There have been societies in which gender outcomes were more equal (look at career choices in authoritarian communist societies for example). But the trade off for this is a loss of choice or freedom. I don't think that's very valuable. If you don't want to be an engineer, or an educator then you shouldn't be forced into that as a career choice to balance population statistics.

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These are societies list of expectations:
We have to pay the bills.

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Women's lib actually made it so that women pay a much larger share of the bills today than they used to (it was pretty much 0% before women's lib)

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We have to grill/cook.

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Boo fricking hoo. Every adult should be capable of cooking simple meals. In marriages where both spouses work, both spouses should cook sometimes. I agree that a stay-at-home parent should cook most of the time, though.

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We have to up keep the yard.

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IMO both should be responsible for this, but in any relationship there should be a divvying up of responsibilities. If you end up taking over yard work, then have your wife do most of the house work.

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If the house gets dirty, we may be expected to clean the house as well.

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Like I said above, if you are doing yard work, expect your wife to do more house work. But you should still clean up after yourself.

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We have to help with the kids and such.

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This is a bad thing? You're complaining about having to parent your children?

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We have to appear more devoured and be the constant romantic.

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Yeah this is a complaint that I've had I was in a bad relationship with a woman who had some emotional issues (anxiety and depression) and she was way too needy. Her expectations were beyond reasonable. But I do think that it's important to have some romance in a relationship, and both partners should be expected to put effort into maintaining that romance. Neither partner should take the other for granted, and that happens way too often in long-term relationships. Women shouldn't stop blowing their men just because they're in year 2 of a marriage

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If a split happens, we have to pay the wife

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I think that depends on who earns more. Usually that's the man, so yeah, usually the man ends up paying alimony. There are definitely some fricked up things that can happen with alimony, though. I don't like that the spouse who earns more has to pay alimony in the event of the other spouse having an affair, for instance. Some states have exceptions for this, but you have to prove that an affair happened and that it caused the marriage to fail, and that's really hard to do and not worthwhile unless you stand to lose a shitload of money. People get totally fricked over by this kind of thing.

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If a split happens, we have to pay for the kids

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Depends on who gets custody, but again, almost always the woman. But taking care of your kids is your obligation and that's not a consequence of women's liberation.