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re: History thread: How did we win the Revolutionary War?
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:53 am to Champagne
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:53 am to Champagne
My opinion is that the lack of political will to send reinforcements, on account of America already being a financial drain on the crown rather than an asset, is what led to the defeat at Yorktown. This military defeat ensured public opinion would completely swing against more investment in trying to keep america in british hands
Yorktown was the result of eroded public support in parliament, not the cause.
Yorktown was the result of eroded public support in parliament, not the cause.
1
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:54 am to Wishnitwas1998
We won because we were committed to the cause. Much like those camel frickers in the Middle East are today.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:55 am to Wishnitwas1998
Two ways. Gradually, and then suddenly.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 10:58 am to samson73103
Not really. At the outset, only 30% wanted independence. 30% wanted to stay with England, and 40% didn't care at all and just wanted to avoid war. The governor of Pennsylvania was outwardly opposed to the war and did everything he could to handicap the continental army from refusing to pay taxes to the continental congress, refusing to allow his state militia from fighting outside the state, refusing to send promised wagons of supplies, even refusing to mobilize his forces to defend Philadelphia from the British army.
The South was outwardly loyalist and opposed war until the British army sacked Charleston and began burning plantations. Even then, most loyalists were in either New York (under British control throughout much of the war), or in the South.
The South was outwardly loyalist and opposed war until the British army sacked Charleston and began burning plantations. Even then, most loyalists were in either New York (under British control throughout much of the war), or in the South.
This post was edited on 3/17/15 at 11:00 am
Posted on 3/17/15 at 11:04 am to Wishnitwas1998
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/17/15 at 11:10 am
Posted on 3/17/15 at 11:40 am to MyNameIsNobody
I'm a bit late to the party but I remember reading a book, I want to say by John Keegan, who writes some great military history, that argued the point that Britain did fight like mad in North America to hold onto what they saw as their most valuable colonial possessions.
It is just hard today to understand that it was the Caribbean they were really worried about. At the time sugar and rum production was one of the most important parts of the British economy. It would have been a financial disaster for them to have lost those islands or their growing colonial territory in India.
The American colonies, on the other hand, cost Britain money without generating massive amounts of revenue. We weren't worth it to keep fighting over and after Yorktown the writing was on the wall for the British.
It is just hard today to understand that it was the Caribbean they were really worried about. At the time sugar and rum production was one of the most important parts of the British economy. It would have been a financial disaster for them to have lost those islands or their growing colonial territory in India.
The American colonies, on the other hand, cost Britain money without generating massive amounts of revenue. We weren't worth it to keep fighting over and after Yorktown the writing was on the wall for the British.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 11:54 am to UGATiger26
quote:
Fun fact: the bad guy in the Patriot, Colonel Tavington, was based off a real British dragoon officer in the Revoltionary War. Except his name was Colonel Tarleton.
Tarleton was one bad dude.
Also, it wasn't just the French fleet that was pivotal. They had troops on the ground at Yorktown that helped bottle up Cornwallis.
BTW, Yorktown is a great place to visit if you are a history buff, plus Williamsburg and Jamestown are close by.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 9:24 pm to kingbob
quote:
Yorktown was the result of eroded public support in parliament, not the cause.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown because the French fleet inflicted a defeat upon the British naval forces off of the coast of Yorktown and chased them away. After that French naval victory, Cornwallis was isolated, unable to be re-supplied by land or by sea and unable to be evacuated by sea by British naval forces.
After the French naval victory at Yorktown, a British relief force destined to aid Cornwallis at Yorktown actually did set sail from New York, but, failed to arrive before Cornwallis was compelled to surrender by force of arms.
It was not "soft power" policy factors that caused Britain to quit, it was military defeat.
Your interpretation is probably what they teach in Great Britain, but, IMHO, it's inaccurate Anglophilia.
This post was edited on 3/17/15 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 3/17/15 at 9:33 pm to Wishnitwas1998
See Vietnam War
Posted on 3/17/15 at 9:37 pm to Mudflap007
quote:
BTW, Yorktown is a great place to visit if you are a history buff, plus Williamsburg and Jamestown are close by.
Yep, it's a GREAT family vacation spot.
Also, the Jamestown Settlement Site is nearby, if I recall correctly.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 9:38 pm to 13SaintTiger
Ben Franklin and to a lesser extent John Adams successfully lobbied the French aristocracy into providing finances and finally providing troops & ships. Adams also was able to secure badly needed funds from the Dutch in order for the US troops to be paid and supplied.
The Marquis de Lafayette and Kosciuscko (sp?) provided important training and moral.
The Marquis de Lafayette and Kosciuscko (sp?) provided important training and moral.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 9:38 pm to Champagne
This has been an awesome, awesome thread. Great insights and debates. Wow.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 9:43 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
Guerrilla warfare
This. It made one 1 troop worth 10 back then. It's getting a little less valuable these days because of technology but it is still by far the most effective way to fight.
Posted on 3/17/15 at 9:47 pm to Arksulli
quote:
The American colonies, on the other hand, cost Britain money without generating massive amounts of revenue. We weren't worth it to keep fighting over and after Yorktown the writing was on the wall for the British.
John Keegan is a great historian, but, he is British.
The notion that Great Britain didn't REALLY fight hard to beat down the Rebellious Colonies in North America is, IMHO, Anglophile revisionism.
Great Britain fought that war for EIGHT YEARS, and two whole years after Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown. This is clear and convincing evidence that Britain strained every military sinew to win that war. They quit because they were militarily defeated, not because of some "soft power" policy factors.
I admit that the American Colonies were lucky to have gained the military victory, but, gain it they did. It was a minor miracle!
Why do today's history professors feel the need to diminish the decisive impact of military victory when the question of imposing US policy on an opponent is raised?
Gentlemen, we aren't going to "soft power" our way to US national security. It will have to be secured by the threat of or execution of US military force. That's the way the American Revolution was won, and that's they way that our Republic will be kept secure.
We can ignore Clausewitz at our own peril. The bad guys will always seek to impose their policy upon us by other methods besides soft policy factors.
This post was edited on 3/17/15 at 10:13 pm
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