- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: History Nerds: The most decisive battle fought since the year 1800?
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:32 pm to TexasTiger90
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:32 pm to TexasTiger90
quote:
the nail in the coffin for the German Army in the west
That occurred long before December of '44. The Battle of the Bulge was not much more than a death rattle as far as Germany's chances to stave off total defeat and unconditional surrender.
0
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:33 pm to kciDAtaE
quote:
Unless the South would have won. Then it moves the needle quite a bit
That's debatable because it's all dependent on the size of the victory. While Lee was very successful on the battlefield, he was never able to achieve a victory brilliant enough to tip the scales in the South's favor. He came very close. Once. After the Battle of Second Manassas in August 1862. Things balanced themselves back out just over two weeks later at Antietam.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:35 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Waterloo and 1st Marne would probably be the most important. The world we know today would look wildly different had those gone the other way.
America would be completely different had Gettysburg (and the Battle of New Orleans) gone the other way.
This post was edited on 6/29/20 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:37 pm to RollTide1987
Waterloo is not nearly as important as advertised. If Wellington had not won there he would have ultimately routed Napoleon at another venue.
Midway might be the most decisive ever because it completely stopped an enemy from projecting power in a short amount of time.
I think that Grant at Chattanooga was probably the most decisive battles ever as it applies to warfare. Grant, et al kicked a fricking army entrenched on the high ground off a mountain. After that his army could do whatever it wanted from the Mississippi to Savannah, GA
Midway might be the most decisive ever because it completely stopped an enemy from projecting power in a short amount of time.
I think that Grant at Chattanooga was probably the most decisive battles ever as it applies to warfare. Grant, et al kicked a fricking army entrenched on the high ground off a mountain. After that his army could do whatever it wanted from the Mississippi to Savannah, GA
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:37 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
strategically it did little to move the needle in the conflict.
What? The Confederate invasion was permanently halted and its Army's lost any offensive ability that it had for the remainder of the war. Sure, the Confederate Army still remained a potent force and inflicted a lot of casualties on the Union over the next 2 years but to act like this wasn't a big game changer in the conflict is absurd. Tell me, do you think the Civil War has the same result if the Confederacy wins that battle? Lord knows some of the writers of the 'Lost Cause' seem to think so.
This post was edited on 6/29/20 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:38 pm to RollTide1987
Battle of New Orleans should be on the list.
Decisive American win
Decided that NO was part of the USA
Decisive American win
Decided that NO was part of the USA
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:39 pm to RollTide1987
In a military and political sense - crushing ones opponent and ending a war in one blow in dominant fashion - its hard to discount sedan. Destroyed the French army and even captured the French leader in Napoleon iii. Now that’s an arse whipping, decisive battle.
Just about every other battle was a big win in a protracted struggle. Sedan was a knock out punch in the first round
Just about every other battle was a big win in a protracted struggle. Sedan was a knock out punch in the first round
This post was edited on 6/29/20 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:41 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I didn't include Gettysburg because, while it was Lee's worst battlefield defeat of the entire war, strategically it did little to move the needle in the conflict. Lee lost a lot but his army was still formidable, battle-hardened, and ready to go for another round. His army scored tactical victories against the Army of the Potomac at Mine Run, the Wilderness, Spotsylvania Court House, and Cold Harbor in the ensuing campaigns against his army.
But a Confederate win and then what?
It
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:42 pm to RollTide1987
Trafalgar
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:44 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
What? The Confederate invasion was permanently halted the invasion and the Confederate Army's permanently lost any offensive ability that it had.
Lee was still more than capable of offensive operations in 1864. The only reason why he never again launched an offensive is because Grant would not let him. The Army of the Potomac attached itself like a barnacle to Lee's army that spring and never let go. Gettysburg was indeed a point of contingency in the Civil War but I wouldn't call it THE point of contingency. Partly because I don't believe there was any true decisive battle in the conflict. Vicksburg comes the closest because it did the most strategically.
quote:
Tell me, do you think the Civil War has the same result if the Confederacy wins that battle?
It really depends on the size of the victory. The only way the North loses the war after a defeat at Gettysburg is if Lee somehow manages to destroy the Army of the Potomac - which wasn't going to happen.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:44 pm to TejasHorn
quote:
As far as changing the course of the biggest of wars, Stalingrad followed by Midway.
Germany wins at Stalingrad then what?
Could they hold it?
Could they hold it and take the oil fields?
Could they hold it, take the oil fields and beat back the US?
I don’t think so.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:45 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Gettysburg was indeed a point of contingency in the Civil War but I wouldn't call it THE point of contingency
It definitely is more than freakin' Vicksburg. And I don't disagree that Vicksburg was a major victory for the Union that really helped to cripple the Confederacy.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:46 pm to doubleb
Decisive?
Great Marianas Turkey Shoot
Great Marianas Turkey Shoot
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:47 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
It also occurred after the treaty ending the war had been signed in Europe and produced nothing of any military value. All it did was vault Andrew Jackson into national superstardom.
If England wins do they abandon La? I’m not so sure they do.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:50 pm to RollTide1987
What about the Battle for Berlin, April and May, 1945?
Soviets took Berlin and caused Hitler to kill himself, thus ending WW2.
Why isn't this battle on the list? Ended WW2.
Soviets took Berlin and caused Hitler to kill himself, thus ending WW2.
Why isn't this battle on the list? Ended WW2.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:50 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
It definitely is more than freakin' Vicksburg.
How so? One wiped an entire army off the Confederate order of battle, cut the Confederacy completely in two, and opened the entirety of the Mississippi River to Union control. Texas, Arkansas, and what remained of Confederate-controlled Louisiana and neutral Missouri could no longer support the Southern war effort with food, men, or armaments.
The other was the bloodiest battle of the Civil War.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:53 pm to RollTide1987
Stalingrad
Midway, while significantly speeding up the process, didn't determine the outcome of the Pacific War. There was no way Japan was going to be victorious.
Midway, while significantly speeding up the process, didn't determine the outcome of the Pacific War. There was no way Japan was going to be victorious.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:54 pm to escatawpabuckeye
quote:
In a military and political sense - crushing ones opponent and ending a war in one blow in dominant fashion - its hard to discount sedan. Destroyed the French army and even captured the French leader in Napoleon iii. Now that’s an arse whipping, decisive battle. Just about every other battle was a big win in a protracted struggle. Sedan was a knock out punch in the first round
This.
Von Moltke at his best. Beautiful pincer move that destroyed the French army in the first massive conflict of the war.
Then the ramifications:
- Allowed the greatest stateman of the 19th century to unify Germany
- Created the largest and most powerful country in Europe
- Set in motion the alliances that would lead to WW1, some of which changed after Bismarck died
- Would mark the peak of Bismarck’s power
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:54 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
It really depends on the size of the victory. The only way the North loses the war after a defeat at Gettysburg is if Lee somehow manages to destroy the Army of the Potomac - which wasn't going to happen.
Confederate win decisively and the North is reeling in the East.
Lincoln moves Grant over and we probably see an aggressive Lee taking on Grant in a battle to end it all.
Posted on 6/29/20 at 4:59 pm to RollTide1987
I’d go with Midway as my pick.
Page 4 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News