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Message
1
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:47 pm to Street Hawk
In Mythbusters, the plane took off because the wheel speed was twice the normal take off speed. The way this question if written doesn't allow the wheel speed to be higher than the conveyor belt speed, thus the plane can't take off.
Captain Joe explains it here:
PLANE on a CONVEYOR BELT! Will it TAKE-OFF? Explained by CAPTAIN JOE
Captain Joe explains it here:
PLANE on a CONVEYOR BELT! Will it TAKE-OFF? Explained by CAPTAIN JOE
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:53 pm to im4LSU
By doing that you dismiss the fact that the riddle as written doesn’t allow that
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:00 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
It says they move exactly the same speed.
It doesn’t say that. It says a conveyor belt designed to match the speed of the wheels, moving in the opposite direction.
Answer: the plane takes off because it can’t match the speed it’s mathematically impossible. The wheels will always be faster so long as the thrust from the engines is greater than zero.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 11:02 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:05 pm to PhysicsGuy
quote:
The conveyor belt is designed to exactly match the speed of the wheels, moving in the opposite direction...
I don’t know how you keep saying it doesn’t say what it says
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:08 pm to PhysicsGuy
Why will the wheels always be faster? What if the treadmill is programmed to go “‘wheel speed’ + 0.001?”
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:11 pm to tigerfoot
I dont know how you can understand the physics and not understand the physics at the same time 
The only way yours makes any sense is if the plane is not on and is essentially a dead stick. That is the only way for the wheels to match the speed of the conveyor belt. And in that case no, the airplane that is not on will not take off. Congrats you solved it
Because of the thrust of the engines. You know, the things that actually propel planes.
The only way yours makes any sense is if the plane is not on and is essentially a dead stick. That is the only way for the wheels to match the speed of the conveyor belt. And in that case no, the airplane that is not on will not take off. Congrats you solved it
quote:
Why will the wheels always be faster?
Because of the thrust of the engines. You know, the things that actually propel planes.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 11:13 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:13 pm to Street Hawk
I see we’re now on page 25.
I did go through a few pages, and you’re all completely wrong but can’t yet understand it.
I’m sorry to let you know, but you’re wrong.
I went through this 15 years ago. I took the same stance that you guys did that there was no chance in hell that the plane could possibly takeoff. I was wrong. I didn’t realize it at the time. Eventually it essentially clicked in my head. A lightbulb went off. It’ll happen for you too.
It’s not a trick question or some physics calculation question. The whole idea in concepts is really very simple.
Hopefully you get it soon
I did go through a few pages, and you’re all completely wrong but can’t yet understand it.
I’m sorry to let you know, but you’re wrong.
I went through this 15 years ago. I took the same stance that you guys did that there was no chance in hell that the plane could possibly takeoff. I was wrong. I didn’t realize it at the time. Eventually it essentially clicked in my head. A lightbulb went off. It’ll happen for you too.
It’s not a trick question or some physics calculation question. The whole idea in concepts is really very simple.
Hopefully you get it soon
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:15 pm to habz007
quote:
I see we’re now on page 25.
I did go through a few pages, and you’re all completely wrong but can’t yet understand it.
I’m sorry to let you know, but you’re wrong.
I went through this 15 years ago. I took the same stance that you guys did that there was no chance in hell that the plane could possibly takeoff. I was wrong. I didn’t realize it at the time. Eventually it essentially clicked in my head. A lightbulb went off. It’ll happen for you too.
It’s not a trick question or some physics calculation question. The whole idea in concepts is really very simple.
Hopefully you get it soon
I was the same way the first time I saw it
Absolutely no way! Wrong. It clicked for me too.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:17 pm to habz007
New to thread, I'm guessing the assumption that there is perfect transfer between wheels and conveyer. So whatever speed the conveyer spins at, the wheels automatically experience an opposite and equal spin rate... and then once you add thrust, the conveyer can never equal the other side of the equation.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 11:18 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:19 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
They didn’t. The experiment they conducted proved that the thrust of the plane overcame the speed of the treadmill.
No one debated that point.
Not quite.
The speed of the treadmill is pointless because the wheels on the plane are freewheeling.
The plane takes off because the thrust is against the atmosphere (it has zero to do with wheel contact).
There is virtually nothing to overcome as it relates to the treadmill.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:21 pm to Pendulum
I did this challenge back in 2010. I spent 2-3 days in denial and explaining to everyone why they were wrong. Then the concept clicked for me. It was a true lightbulb situation. And then I realized I was wrong and I had to admit to it and then tried to explain to all the thread newbies that didn’t grasp the concept of why.
I was converted. I saw it and I flipped mid thread to try to then help explain
I was converted. I saw it and I flipped mid thread to try to then help explain
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 11:32 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:22 pm to Pendulum
quote:
New to thread, I'm guessing the assumption that there is perfect transfer between wheels and conveyer. So whatever speed the conveyer spins at, the wheels automatically experience an opposite and equal spin rate... and then once you add thrust, the conveyer can never equal the other side of the equation.
Precisely. Resulting in the plane acting normal.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 11:23 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:22 pm to FutureCorridor49
Because the belt can never go faster than the wheels, they are free spinning so they match the speed of the belt 1 for 1. Hence why when you add in thrust the belt is always behind because everything it does to speed up to match the thrust is just instantly offset by a corresponding wheel acceleration.
The belts speed is a dependent variable with the speed of the wheel, but the wheel has an independent source of forward acceleration.
The belts speed is a dependent variable with the speed of the wheel, but the wheel has an independent source of forward acceleration.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 11:24 pm to Pendulum
quote:
New to thread, I'm guessing the assumption that there is perfect transfer between wheels and conveyer. So whatever speed the conveyer spins at, the wheels automatically experience an opposite and equal spin rate... and then once you add thrust, the conveyer can never equal the other side of the equation.
Exactly.
Posted on 4/13/24 at 8:04 pm to PhysicsGuy
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, you’re 100% spot on.
Posted on 4/13/24 at 9:47 pm to Street Hawk
how is this thing 25 pages long now?
If the belt speed matches the wheel speed 1 for 1 but in the opposite direction then the plane would never move in a forward direction, hence not enough airflow across the wings so it can not take off because it is not moving along the x axis
And adding thrust as a forward vector does not count because the wheels only roll forward as a result of that vector. If the forward vector from engine thrust is combined with the equal vector in the opposite direction from the treadmill motion then the net vector is 0
If the belt speed matches the wheel speed 1 for 1 but in the opposite direction then the plane would never move in a forward direction, hence not enough airflow across the wings so it can not take off because it is not moving along the x axis
And adding thrust as a forward vector does not count because the wheels only roll forward as a result of that vector. If the forward vector from engine thrust is combined with the equal vector in the opposite direction from the treadmill motion then the net vector is 0
This post was edited on 4/13/24 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 4/13/24 at 9:57 pm to doliss
quote:
how is this thing 25 pages long now?
B/c this country is full of fricking idiots.
Posted on 4/13/24 at 10:04 pm to Street Hawk
No it can’t. The wheels are the only thing moving in place and there’s no air going over the wings.
Posted on 4/13/24 at 10:19 pm to WyattDonnelly
quote:
No it can’t. The wheels are the only thing moving in place and there’s no air going over the wings.
How does a free spinning wheel hold back a jet engine?
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